M1907 vs. M38 vs. M91/38?

[MarksmanTim]

Hey guys,

I haven't even cleaned all of the latest purchases yet and my communication with that seller has started again already. I didn't want the "M38" he has to slip away. I also confirmed that the Hungarian M44 he advertised is indeed a Hungarian M44.

Back to the M38. He emailed me a description of it. I already responded saying I would take it. I'll report back when I know details of going to get it. I am allowing myself to use the bank account for this one so it doesn't get away! I already burned all of the cash I had from selling off other things and scrap money.

Here is his response:

Receiver markings: 'II' in circle; Imperial Eagle on rounded part of receiver (I think - eyes getting old); a sort of 'H' shaped thingy inside a circle; under eagle described above is the number "1"; then under that cyrillic writing that I cannot duplicate; under that similar writing, but longer word starts OPY; under that what looks like a tiny star, and under that (this is where it gets wierd) is the date 1909; under that is some small cyrillic letters. All that is on the rounded part of the receiver. On the hex part of the receiver is a circle 'T' and another stronger Imperial Eagle. There's another small mark also that I cannot quite identify directly above that eagle... The serial number is 5671 (seems low) and the bolt is electro-penciled to match. The only stock markings seem to be the numbers '766' stamped into the left side of the butt. The end of the barrel is import marked with Centurie's stamp. Overall, I would call the condition excellent, and probably arsenal rebuild (bolt electro penciled to match receiver serial number). The sights seem to be regulated for meters, not arskins (spelling?). I have put three rounds through this (ouch) to ensure the sights were on since it was a great woods deer rifle.

So the question is, is this actually an M1907 or just a cobbled together "M38" made for the export market, like my book cautions me about? I know the easiest way to figure it out will be to see it, but that's not happening yet.

Interested to hear some thoughts on this, though I think it will mostly be speculation until I get pics.

Thanks guys!

[Doggystrike]

I would think it's a M91/38 since it has electro pencil match, But that's just me. Either way, Sounds cool!!

[shoto2758]

The H looking "thingy" inside a circle is a "Circled Pi" proof mark.
Eagle-Imperial Russian Proof Commision??
Guessing..need pics..

[Knuckledragger]

100% 91/38.

[desdem12]

[Longcolt44]

It does sound like a 91/38 but until we see them pichers things we won't know for sure.

[Knuckledragger]

100% 91/38

[martin08]

M1907 will have a very unique rear sight.




And not too many of them show up in the real world. My guess would be that the 1909 dated carbine would most likely be the M91/38 Czech conversion. It will have the tangent rear sight, with increments marked to 1,000 meters

[MarksmanTim]

Thanks. The picture of the rear sight is most helpful. Apparently the 1907 has a longer stock too? (meaning the wood ends closer to the muzzle)
The seller just emailed me back. We have set a meet time for Monday after work. He further stated he did some "research" 15 years ago and I quote: "that indicated it was a moderately rare pre-production of the M38 (after the 1910 Cav carbine)"

Rather than continue to speculate I guess we can wait and see Monday night!

Also, he wants $300 for it...

[BuckeyeSgt]

If it is the 91/38 or 1907 I think the price is just fine.

[MarksmanTim]

100% 91/38

I tend to believe you. I searched on GB and there is one for sale, with 1 hour left in the auction. The pictures and description seem to match what I might have here. The Czech "T in a circle" seems like a good give-a-way!

[racerguy00]

91/38s are cut down M91 infantry rifles and are really scarce. $300 is the average price I've seen WITHOUT shipping etc added on. And the price keeps on climbing. If I had the cash it would be a must have. One thing to look for is that they seem to have originally had m44 style bayonets. The lugs were ground off at the arsenal. If you notice that dont let it scare you off. Supposed to be like that.


P.S. Martin, whenever I see 1907 carbine in a title, I wonder if yours will make an appearance. I scrolled down and bingo!

[martin08]

If it turns out to be a 1907 carbine for three hundred bucks, then that is a good price, too. Add another zero to the 300 to get the approximate value of one of those.

[husker51]

[MarksmanTim]

If it turns out to be a 1907 carbine for three hundred bucks, then that is a good price, too. Add another zero to the 300 to get the approximate value of one of those.

I'm sure it's not. I'm pretty sure he said he bought it from one of the distributor's like Century...

[racerguy00]

The GB 91/38 went for over $500

[MarksmanTim]

The GB 91/38 went for over $500

Wow. I was going to check the auction but I didn't mark it before it ended. Is there a way to look at completed auctions? I think I went on site a few months back that listed auction prices from all the main sites so you could get an idea what things are selling for. I was looking up Yugo M48's at the time. Glad I did as the one I found for sale locally was way over priced. ($450 fresh in grease still with bayo and acc.)

I will update the post tomorrow night!

[gwilly]

Does it look like this? By your description it sure sounds like it.
It's a 91/38 I got off of a GB auction that concluded on Christmas Eve for $315 + shipping. (thanks JYD!)

[TopperT]

Talk about a Merry Christmas......that is one beautiful rifle 'gwilly'

[gwilly]

Thanks Topper, it was!
The rifling on this one is kind of thin from it's M91 days. I doesn't look to have hardly ever been fired as a 91/38.