What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
You've heard the term. Now just what is a Sino-Soviet...
In late 1955, the Soviet Union was ramping up production of the AK-47. As a result, assembly of the SKS at the Tula Arsenal dwindled to a trickle into early 1956. In that period, the Soviets sold their tooling, parts, design specifications, and provided engineering support in order for China to begin production of the SKS. The designation of the new model was called the Type-56.
Early manufacturing utilized Soviet parts at the Jianshe Arsenal, Factory /26\. The first rifles that were stamped with the /26\ arsenal mark are designated as the Sino-Soviet Type-56 SKS. These guns are identified by a serial number which generally consists of a Latin letter, followed by a four digit number, i.e. J4321. The main serial number is found on the left front of the receiver, followed by the factory symbol, which can sometimes be lightly stamped and/or partially obscured by the wood line of the stock. The numbered parts on the metal contain the entire or partial serial number, and are stamped on the receiver cover, trigger group, magazine, bolt carrier, left side buttstock (which omits the letter prefix). Electropenciled serials can be found on the bolt, the underside of the gas tube, and sometimes on the gas piston.
The guns were assembled entirely, or nearly entirely from Russian parts. The fitment/assembly stamps of the reciever and barrel (number 20 as shown) are identical to Russian markings, and can also be found at corresponding points along the barrel where front stock ferrule, gas block, and bayonet lug are pressed into position (number 1 as shown). Later Chinese guns do not exhibit these fitment marks. Type-56 carbines were assembled with the blade bayonet style until early 1965.
The right side of the bolt carrier has a milled out slot to lighten the part. This is called a Lightening Cut (not to be confused with an electrical charge!), and is not found on later versions of the Type-56. The rear sight is identified with the Cyrillic Russian letter "П", which translates to P. The meaning is unclear, except that it corresponds to the lowest setting of the slide on the rear sight leaf for battlefield zero settings of 300 meters.
The stock and handguard of the Sino-Soviet is not the typical soft Chu wood found on later Chinese guns. It is made from birch hardwood. The sling swivel is located on the left buttstock, with usually tall and deeply stamped serial numbers toward the rear. The relief cut just above the right side of the trigger is short in length, like its Russian counterpart. Later Chinese stocks extended the relief cut along the entire length of the trigger guard. Sino-Soviet stocks will have a small 1/4" sized star cartouche on the right side buttstock.
It is rare to find a completely matching original finished Sino-Soviet. Mine was refurbished and restamped to match. Even complete matching refurbs with correct stocks are somewhat uncommon, and a complete specimen like the one featured here will command a $50-75 premium over other early Chinese SKS's. Thanks for allowing me to share with you all, folks.
In late 1955, the Soviet Union was ramping up production of the AK-47. As a result, assembly of the SKS at the Tula Arsenal dwindled to a trickle into early 1956. In that period, the Soviets sold their tooling, parts, design specifications, and provided engineering support in order for China to begin production of the SKS. The designation of the new model was called the Type-56.
Early manufacturing utilized Soviet parts at the Jianshe Arsenal, Factory /26\. The first rifles that were stamped with the /26\ arsenal mark are designated as the Sino-Soviet Type-56 SKS. These guns are identified by a serial number which generally consists of a Latin letter, followed by a four digit number, i.e. J4321. The main serial number is found on the left front of the receiver, followed by the factory symbol, which can sometimes be lightly stamped and/or partially obscured by the wood line of the stock. The numbered parts on the metal contain the entire or partial serial number, and are stamped on the receiver cover, trigger group, magazine, bolt carrier, left side buttstock (which omits the letter prefix). Electropenciled serials can be found on the bolt, the underside of the gas tube, and sometimes on the gas piston.
The guns were assembled entirely, or nearly entirely from Russian parts. The fitment/assembly stamps of the reciever and barrel (number 20 as shown) are identical to Russian markings, and can also be found at corresponding points along the barrel where front stock ferrule, gas block, and bayonet lug are pressed into position (number 1 as shown). Later Chinese guns do not exhibit these fitment marks. Type-56 carbines were assembled with the blade bayonet style until early 1965.
The right side of the bolt carrier has a milled out slot to lighten the part. This is called a Lightening Cut (not to be confused with an electrical charge!), and is not found on later versions of the Type-56. The rear sight is identified with the Cyrillic Russian letter "П", which translates to P. The meaning is unclear, except that it corresponds to the lowest setting of the slide on the rear sight leaf for battlefield zero settings of 300 meters.
The stock and handguard of the Sino-Soviet is not the typical soft Chu wood found on later Chinese guns. It is made from birch hardwood. The sling swivel is located on the left buttstock, with usually tall and deeply stamped serial numbers toward the rear. The relief cut just above the right side of the trigger is short in length, like its Russian counterpart. Later Chinese stocks extended the relief cut along the entire length of the trigger guard. Sino-Soviet stocks will have a small 1/4" sized star cartouche on the right side buttstock.
It is rare to find a completely matching original finished Sino-Soviet. Mine was refurbished and restamped to match. Even complete matching refurbs with correct stocks are somewhat uncommon, and a complete specimen like the one featured here will command a $50-75 premium over other early Chinese SKS's. Thanks for allowing me to share with you all, folks.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Interesting variation. I wonder how many were built with the Tula side rail star? And when did they start using Chinese made parts? I wonder if Howie has any ideas?
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Sweet
The commerce which maybe carried on with the people inhabiting the line you will pursue renders a knowledge of these people important ~Thomas Jefferson~ (to- Lewis and Clark)
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Neat piece of history
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
There are at least ten or so documented with the Tula star still on the left side of the receiver. All examples that I have seen with this feature have been configured with later Chinese parts and/or assembled as commercial variants, i.e. paratrooper style. I haven't seen any that would be considered as "early" production.Woodbeef wrote:Interesting variation. I wonder how many were built with the Tula side rail star? And when did they start using Chinese made parts? I wonder if Howie has any ideas?
Chinese parts started showing up in the later 1950's or early 1960's. Even my 1964 has the Soviet fitment marks. By 1965, the short collar barrel lug came out, and this was assuredly a Chinese part.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Interesting SKS martin, thanks for sharing this one.
In essensce...parts made at Tula were assembled at Jianshe as a Chinese rifle? I would think these would be rare as you say of course since its the end of the Soviet inventory. Very cool.
Nice photos too. Very impressive!
In essensce...parts made at Tula were assembled at Jianshe as a Chinese rifle? I would think these would be rare as you say of course since its the end of the Soviet inventory. Very cool.
Nice photos too. Very impressive!
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Thanks for the info Martin08 , always interesting to learn info regarding SKS's, I've been looking for a true Sino.
I believe this would be one like you are referring to, a Chinese with the Tula star. The Soviet-Sino SKS. I posted this one a while back, it was an odd find considering I almost wrote it off as just another Chinese.
I believe this would be one like you are referring to, a Chinese with the Tula star. The Soviet-Sino SKS. I posted this one a while back, it was an odd find considering I almost wrote it off as just another Chinese.
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
that sure would look good with my sks's.
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Most of the early Sino soviet guns had the star on the stock. One thing to remember is ONLY FACTORY TRIANGLE 26 GUNS HAD BLADE BAYONETS ). they were the first factory to get soviet supplied parts and machinery which may have been from the Izhevesk plant They used the free bayonets till they ran out then started to use the Chinese bayonets The early receivers with letter in front of serial number are believed to be Russian receivers. The Russians of course did not proof anything inless it was assembled on a completed gun so you will not find any Russian proofs. The Sino Soviet guns I believe ended when they changed to the Factory triangle 26 in front of the serial number.Woodbeef wrote:Interesting variation. I wonder how many were built with the Tula side rail star? And when did they start using Chinese made parts? I wonder if Howie has any ideas?
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
I have never seen or heard of any with stars on the receivers being made into Chinese Guns. The Tula star series of Russian SKS are late 55 undated top covers and 56 with nothing on top cover.martin08 wrote:There are at least ten or so documented with the Tula star still on the left side of the receiver. All examples that I have seen with this feature have been configured with later Chinese parts and/or assembled as commercial variants, i.e. paratrooper style. I haven't seen any that would be considered as "early" production.Woodbeef wrote:Interesting variation. I wonder how many were built with the Tula side rail star? And when did they start using Chinese made parts? I wonder if Howie has any ideas?
Chinese parts started showing up in the later 1950's or early 1960's. Even my 1964 has the Soviet fitment marks. By 1965, the short collar barrel lug came out, and this was assuredly a Chinese part.
The star is well after the serial number on the left side and are found in two different sizes. I would be skeptical of that fact as all the collectors I know well do not have any in there collections and have never discussed that find at all. Just my opinion !!!
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Interesting photo but for me I would need more proof of existance. Russian guns with that star would have Russian serial numbers with letters and numbers . Its very interesting but I am wondering where they came from.Greasemonkey wrote:Thanks for the info Martin08 , always interesting to learn info regarding SKS's, I've been looking for a true Sino.
I believe this would be one like you are referring to, a Chinese with the Tula star. The Soviet-Sino SKS. I posted this one a while back, it was an odd find considering I almost wrote it off as just another Chinese.
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Howie,
Click on the picture above in Greasemonkey's post. It is a Chinese gun, built on a late letter-series styled receiver. There are several more displayed on SKS Boards. They just started getting documented about 2 years ago, though I'm sure they've been around in the States since 1993 or before. All that I have seen have been commercial builds or refurbs.
Click on the picture above in Greasemonkey's post. It is a Chinese gun, built on a late letter-series styled receiver. There are several more displayed on SKS Boards. They just started getting documented about 2 years ago, though I'm sure they've been around in the States since 1993 or before. All that I have seen have been commercial builds or refurbs.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Here is the list of Chicoms built on letter-series receivers. At the time there were six on the list, I have seen a few more in archives and on other forums. By the looks of the serial range, there could have been at least 2,000 of them assembled.
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=89913.0
Contrary to a few claims that these were the first SKS's produced, I believe that they were some of the last. All have been import marked.
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=89913.0
Contrary to a few claims that these were the first SKS's produced, I believe that they were some of the last. All have been import marked.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Howie,howiebearse wrote: Interesting photo but for me I would need more proof of existance. Russian guns with that star would have Russian serial numbers with letters and numbers . Its very interesting but I am wondering where they came from.
I'd be interested in finding more info on this variation, simply due to the oddity of it. Here is my original post, it has some other photos, viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1282
I can also provide any other photos/information you may need.
Martin08,
I got two weird questions here, if they were some of the last Chinese SKS's built, why would it have all the features of the early Chinese rifles, heavy barrel lug, early style rear sight base, cyrillic letter "n" on rear sight, blade bayonet, early milled trigger group?
Would there be a way to tell if it's a Russian or Chinese barrel? Just curiosity questions.
I said I was an addict. I didn't say I had a problem.
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
A quote from the link you provided:
martin08 wrote:Beautiful gun, GM!
You have one of the very few that are still in full carbine length. Most are cut down to the Paratrooper style.
But before I can ascribe to the "earliest" Chinese model, I am going to have to see one that is in original worn bluing, non-import marked, and perhaps papered as a bringback. If these were indeed pre- Sino-Soviet, I think we would have been presented with an example that has some war weary features by now. All examples that I have seen are deep bluing and on Chu Wood stocks vs. the worn bluing and hardwood stocks that are found on the known non-refurbed 1956-1958 Chinese assembled SKS's.
My guess (since China has not released any arsenal data)? These were assembled in the 1980's from left over Russian parts, and exported by Norinco (founded in 1980) for the U.S. commercial market.
No words of wisdom come to mind at this time....
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
all of the Factory triangle 26 early guns had the Russian sight ladders on them until like the bayonets they ran out. The Russian supplied parts lasted for quite some time and are only legitimate on the triangle 26 guns.Factory triangle 26 is also known as factory 296 and later as factory 0296. I am really surprised at the late style receivers on Chinese guns but live and learn that's why these boards are so important and the fellow gun collectors that add there info are important as well no actual experts here just enthusiasts that share what they learn !!! thanks for sharing fellows!!
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Hello all. Most of you I see have simply moved here from elsewhere, and I see the standard discussions are back...
This style Chinese-Russian star marked rifles I named "Soviet-Sino", has been popping up lately. I have been trying to track the numbers on the page over at sksboards as Martin08 linked to. I personally have two of these, one full length, and one commercial paratrooper.
Both are built on Russian long collar receivers, both are Chinese assembled, and both have Chinese stocks.
As to when they were built???????????? I do not know, but they were sent to China from Russia and as such would be the first SKS rifles in China. Perhaps completed at a later date, but I doubt it, unless the sights were also installed prior to shipment. number 1999 has a Tula star on the rear leaf.
Regards to all.
Darin
This style Chinese-Russian star marked rifles I named "Soviet-Sino", has been popping up lately. I have been trying to track the numbers on the page over at sksboards as Martin08 linked to. I personally have two of these, one full length, and one commercial paratrooper.
Both are built on Russian long collar receivers, both are Chinese assembled, and both have Chinese stocks.
As to when they were built???????????? I do not know, but they were sent to China from Russia and as such would be the first SKS rifles in China. Perhaps completed at a later date, but I doubt it, unless the sights were also installed prior to shipment. number 1999 has a Tula star on the rear leaf.
Regards to all.
Darin
Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Welcome, Prince! Good to have your expertise here, as well!
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Welcome to the forum Darin. The basic discussions are necessary as most of us here know little to nothing about the SKS , including myself. I was always a bolt rifle guy, when I stray from that it tends to be to the M1 Garand. It's interesting to read about and see all the variations of SKS I had no idea existed.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: What is a Sino-Soviet SKS?
Prince you old dog! What took you so long to get here? Welcome aboard!Prince50 wrote:Hello all. Most of you I see have simply moved here from elsewhere, and I see the standard discussions are back...
This style Chinese-Russian star marked rifles I named "Soviet-Sino", has been popping up lately. I have been trying to track the numbers on the page over at sksboards as Martin08 linked to. I personally have two of these, one full length, and one commercial paratrooper.
Both are built on Russian long collar receivers, both are Chinese assembled, and both have Chinese stocks.
As to when they were built???????????? I do not know, but they were sent to China from Russia and as such would be the first SKS rifles in China. Perhaps completed at a later date, but I doubt it, unless the sights were also installed prior to shipment. number 1999 has a Tula star on the rear leaf.
Regards to all.
Darin
Now, you need to show us a few pics. of some of those jewels you have. On other threads to.
Steve
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