Vietnam bringback w/capture paper, lots of pics

[Junk Yard Dog]

One of my Lebel carbines was brought back fro Nam, the story behind it wasn't a capture from the enemy or anything like that, he bought it from someone. He sent it home also, didn't recall anything about paperwork, but as it was made before 1898 I just figured maybe it hadn't been needed. 1966-67 was before the Gun Control Act of 1968 rolled along, after that the rules changed here in the states, they probably did over there as well.

[bunkysdad]

It makes me wonder how much ordnance made it past the inspections. 80mm mortar round?

[Junk Yard Dog]

It makes me wonder how much ordnance made it past the inspections. 80mm mortar round?

Not so much the big stuff, but a lot of other things got past. Tens of millions of soldiers have left the US to go "over there" since the Great War, even if only one or two percent of them sneaked something home just think of how much crap that is.

[jones0430]

After WWII, when my father was shipped home from Europe, he couldn't find anyone who would accept his 1911A1 before he was released. So he kept it.

[Virdea]

Better late than never!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0sFbH9A ... t3cunD7H9A

These are cut from a Viet Minh documentary, could be one of them is your very rifle.

http://www.virdea.net/french/36.html

[djbuck1]

It makes me wonder how much ordnance made it past the inspections. 80mm mortar round?

Not so much the big stuff, but a lot of other things got past. Tens of millions of soldiers have left the US to go "over there" since the Great War, even if only one or two percent of them sneaked something home just think of how much crap that is.

Exactly. Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of . . . stuff . . . never makes it onto (military) cargo manifests. As long as people don't get indiscrete or try to bring something really dangerous (like live projectiles mentioned above) back, portable items do come back-- even today.

[paul6892]

Great find

Can you still buy the French 7.5x54mm ammo

[Virdea]

7.5x54mm is available. Prvi makes excellent FMJ. Graf makes a good hunting round. There is surplus but now days you mostly find it on Gunbroker at twice the price of new reloadable.

7.5x54 is also noted for being really easy to reload. Most reload tables allow for standard 308 bullets.

[Virdea]

One source of 8mm Berthier rifles was during the Great War when an entire American division was armed with them. The 93rd Infantry division fought with the French and had French caliber arms, Remington made 1907/15 rifles. The next part is interesting because the Army denies this occurred. I was doing oral histories in South Carolina for my doctorate and noticed a "a rifle on the wall" - it was a Berthier. When I asked, I was told it was Grand Dad's war rifle. At the time I had no idea US soldiers carried these rifles. Then, during a second oral history in another rural farming family and same thing, an African American family proudly showing off a Berthier.

I started asking and found several more, many of them bubba'd, and some from French arsenals. One of the kids (himself 75 years old by then) clued me in. He said that when the 93rd Infantry division plus a wide range of other units got home to muster out, the Army had no desire to warehouse or deal with the tens of thousands of Berthiers that had been issued to African American troops. So a few of the divisional quartermasters let soldiers take them home, and thousands of them when back with the soldiers. It was never widely made public (I assume) because the Army feared the backlash from politicians of southern states for letting black soldiers return home with what was, for the era, a powerful rifle, and because simply letting a couple hundred thousand dollars of rifles in 1920s money walk was likely seen as wasteful, even if the rifles were only going to be tossed in the ocean.

At the time in much of the south African Americans could not purchase modern centerfire hunting rifles without ending up at the end of a noose, so many black farm families used those rifles for a lot years. While Mauser bring-backs were the most popular in white families, black former soldiers use the Berthiers, often modifying them to make them better hunters. The funny thing is these Berthier were not loved when the soldiers had to use them in combat, most had been trained on 03 or Krags and preferred those weapons, but when the rifles came back they took on mythical status. A lot of kids learned one shot hunting on them, because the clips are easily lost and most families fired the Berthier single shot.

Kresges used to stock 8mm Lebel ammunition, not an official catalog item, in the south. Supposedly the rifles used to defend Rosewood during the standoff in Florida in 1923 were in part 8mm Berthier.

[paul6892]

Berthier rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthier_rifle

I learn something new almost everyday from this Forum

[TulaTom]

Very cool, GreaseMonkey!