Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
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Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Hello,
I'm looking for the Mosin manual issued to the Polar Bear Expedition to Russia, either reproduction paper or online. No luck thus far. Can you help?
Thank you,
Josh
I'm looking for the Mosin manual issued to the Polar Bear Expedition to Russia, either reproduction paper or online. No luck thus far. Can you help?
Thank you,
Josh
- Junk Yard Dog
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Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Was there ever such a manual produced?
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
I was wondering that too. The only US military manual on the Mosin Rifles I know of was published in 1954.Junk Yard Dog wrote:Was there ever such a manual produced?
They really wouldn't have to have a manual - I don't recall seeing a weapon manual when I was in basic training - they just showed us how use it.
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Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
But wouldn't it be unlike the military to pass up an opportunity to make a manual? Seems there should be something around, especially since we produced the rifles.
Thanks,
Josh
Thanks,
Josh
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Originally we produced the rifles under contract for Russia. If there were manuals they would have been in Russian but I doubt that they would have asked us to print them.Josh Smith wrote:But wouldn't it be unlike the military to pass up an opportunity to make a manual? Seems there should be something around, especially since we produced the rifles.
Thanks,
Josh
"I spent most of my money on beer and women. The rest I just wasted."
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
I would be surprised if any such manual existed.
"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Josh, I don't know if in your research you came across this but if not you may want to contact these folks:
"The Bentley Historical Library of the University of Michigan has developed the largest collection of manuscript and printed materials on the Polar Bear Expedition, consisting of over eighty-five individual collections of primary source material as well as numerous published materials. The Bentley Library has not attempted to document the men who served in Siberia."
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/polaread/
"The Bentley Historical Library of the University of Michigan has developed the largest collection of manuscript and printed materials on the Polar Bear Expedition, consisting of over eighty-five individual collections of primary source material as well as numerous published materials. The Bentley Library has not attempted to document the men who served in Siberia."
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/polaread/
"I spent most of my money on beer and women. The rest I just wasted."
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Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
That entire operation was slapped together on the quick, and mostly with half asses planning. The Mosin was close enough in operation to a US M1903 that they probably gave them verbal instruction rather than written.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Josh may I ask what is your purpose for looking for the manual. If it is just an english language US military Mosin manual you want, you can get that at http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/
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Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Hello,Hombre wrote:Josh may I ask what is your purpose for looking for the manual. If it is just an english language US military Mosin manual you want, you can get that at http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/
Thank you.
I posted the 1954 manual on another forum and one gent wondered if there was a manual for troops during the time the Mosin was issued as an alternative rifle to the M1903.
I told him I'd try to find it, and I'm still looking. This place is a good resource, and I figured if one existed, at least one person here would know about it!
Regards,
Josh
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
I have searched quite a bit trying to find anything on their training. The closest I have come is this site.
"The first time that the men of the U.S. Army's 339th Infantry Regiment realized they were not going to France was when their British Enfield rifles were taken away while they were training in England, and Mosin-Nagant rifles were substituted for them, ostensibly to ensure compatibility with Russian ammunition. The doughboys were appalled at how flimsy and inaccurate their new weapons were. After a short course of instruction, on August 27, 1918, the troops were packed aboard transports bound north toward the Arctic Circle."
Notice they were not much impressed with the Mosin-Nagant rifles. Further evidence of that later on the page:
"As far as weaponry was concerned, the Americans had long since learned that their Mosin-Nagant rifles were nearly worthless--fortunately for them, the Bolsheviks were using the same rifles. Instead, the Allied troops depended on Vickers and Lewis machine guns sited at various points around the town. The Lewis gun was particularly valued for its ruggedness under adverse conditions, and that was amply demonstrated on October 23, when Soviet gunboats came down the Dvina and started shelling Toulgas."
"The first time that the men of the U.S. Army's 339th Infantry Regiment realized they were not going to France was when their British Enfield rifles were taken away while they were training in England, and Mosin-Nagant rifles were substituted for them, ostensibly to ensure compatibility with Russian ammunition. The doughboys were appalled at how flimsy and inaccurate their new weapons were. After a short course of instruction, on August 27, 1918, the troops were packed aboard transports bound north toward the Arctic Circle."
Notice they were not much impressed with the Mosin-Nagant rifles. Further evidence of that later on the page:
"As far as weaponry was concerned, the Americans had long since learned that their Mosin-Nagant rifles were nearly worthless--fortunately for them, the Bolsheviks were using the same rifles. Instead, the Allied troops depended on Vickers and Lewis machine guns sited at various points around the town. The Lewis gun was particularly valued for its ruggedness under adverse conditions, and that was amply demonstrated on October 23, when Soviet gunboats came down the Dvina and started shelling Toulgas."
"I spent most of my money on beer and women. The rest I just wasted."
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Here is a picture of them with Mosin rifles. Looks like they were issued a frog to carry the bayonet in.
.. "En route to Archangel, a group of 339th Infantry Regiment doughboys pose with their newly issued M1891 Mosin-Nagant rifles. Most would have preferred to keep their originally issued British Enfields, but the large supply of Nagant ammunition already in theater drove the rearming decision. (Photo courtesy of Charles G. Thomas)"
.. "En route to Archangel, a group of 339th Infantry Regiment doughboys pose with their newly issued M1891 Mosin-Nagant rifles. Most would have preferred to keep their originally issued British Enfields, but the large supply of Nagant ammunition already in theater drove the rearming decision. (Photo courtesy of Charles G. Thomas)"
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"I spent most of my money on beer and women. The rest I just wasted."
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Here is a couple of pictures of them at Archangel:
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Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
A Mosin is pretty basic. I would think they would just tell them lefty tighty and righty loosey on the barrel band screws, and rest they should be able to figure out themselves.
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Thanks for the pictures, Hombre. That's pretty cool.
"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
What the scott bull says
The commerce which maybe carried on with the people inhabiting the line you will pursue renders a knowledge of these people important ~Thomas Jefferson~ (to- Lewis and Clark)
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Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
To take a man who has trained with the US M1903, or 1917, both precision marksmans tools and then issue him a Mosin M1891, a totally unfamiliar weapon is a real kick in the balls. If they had gotten Finn M39's it might have been another story, but the M39 was yet to be invented and the US troops hated the Mosin. The idea was to outfit them with Remington and NEW Mosins that Uncle had bought from the two US company's to keep them solvent after the Russians defaulted on the contract, then let them make use of ammunition that had already been sent to Russia. Stupid, American soldiers should be outfitted with American weapons, this is a matter of national pride, and the soldiers felt slighted. The operation was rushed, there was not sufficient time to get the troops accustomed to the new rifles, and so they suffered with things like feed problems, extraction issues, all the things the armorers themselves had not had time to learn to deal with. The entire operation was a cluster****, and poisoned Soviet /American relations for decades.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
After a man calls a Mosin-Nagant flimsly, he has lost any crediblilty with me. Call them ugly and ungainly but not flimsy.
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
I can kind of understand why soldiers that had trained for a year with the US Model 1917 would think the Mosin-Nagant appeared flimsy.SA1911a1 wrote:After a man calls a Mosin-Nagant flimsly, he has lost any crediblilty with me. Call them ugly and ungainly but not flimsy.
(I don't have an 1891 but figure the 91/30 stock thickness etc. would be a reasonable comparison to the M1917)
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Last edited by Hombre on Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Polar Bear Expedition Manual?
Thanks for the digging!
I knew there was an involvement of US Troops , but certainly not where and that they were given the line rifle to work with.
Good job!
I knew there was an involvement of US Troops , but certainly not where and that they were given the line rifle to work with.
Good job!
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