Finnish Mosin M39 bore

[Lp1911]

Hi, I recently purchased a Sako M39 barrel dated 1944. It’s not my first but I am wondering how you would characterize in words the bore condition from attached pictures (pitted/frosted/shiny/etc) as well as the condition of the rifling:

AD1CD4E8-CA8F-486C-91A8-AE4C063C1A34.jpeg

F360E9DC-9EBF-4D29-93C8-07A653497EB4.jpeg

76E26132-A447-4BE1-A829-437E60551874.jpeg

The others I own have shiny bores, while this one obviously doesn’t.
Thanks

[Junk Yard Dog]

I would call this antique milsurp normal. A shiny bore on a rifle used in a vicious war during the era of corrosive primed ammunition is nothing short of unbelievable, and show the result of having highly trained and disciplined troops. A when troops are in near constant contact with the enemy do not have time to strip down weapons for cleaning. Most M39's seem to have been used during the post war period were there was nothing but time for cleaning, but some would have seen the elephant, the rifle you have is likely one of them. NRA guidelines for antique firearm condition do not even take bore condition into account, that is only something someone who intends to shoot an antique rifle would care about. The bore on your rifle should not have any accuracy issues unless there is wear on the crown, that's fairly light pitting, still some shine, you should see some of the sewer pipes we got on the early import Chinese type 53's.

[Lp1911]

Here is the crown:

EBE655C8-B190-41CD-B5E1-092AFBD0555E.jpeg

65F1D32C-9F54-454E-8AF4-A42871B655B0.jpeg

[steelbuttplate]

That looks pretty good. I got one that looked like a dirty shotgun barrel. After enough scrubbing and solvent to get the rust and copper out, it had decent rounded rifling and still shot good.

[Lp1911]

Will try in indoor up to 50 yds tomorrow, and if that looks good, the outdoor range when weather gets better

[Mangrove]

A shiny bore on a rifle used in a vicious war during the era of corrosive primed ammunition is nothing short of unbelievable, and show the result of having highly trained and disciplined troops.

M/39 rifles were originally issued with Finnish D166 ammunition with Sinoxid (Latin for "non oxidation") primers which contain no mercury and are non-corrosive. If the rifle has been used in conjunction with corrosive ammunition, it was most likely after the weapon was imported.

[Junk Yard Dog]

A shiny bore on a rifle used in a vicious war during the era of corrosive primed ammunition is nothing short of unbelievable, and show the result of having highly trained and disciplined troops.

M/39 rifles were originally issued with Finnish D166 ammunition with Sinoxid (Latin for "non oxidation") primers which contain no mercury and are non-corrosive. If the rifle has been used in conjunction with corrosive ammunition, it was most likely after the weapon was imported.

It is my understanding that along with weapons vast amounts of Soviet made ammunition was captured during the Winter War. Was none of this later issued for use by Finnish troops? I have been collecting long enough to have bought M39's from the importers just after they were brought in from Finland in the 1980's , and later from the hoard one importer had been sitting on for many years before any of the rifles had reached the public. Most bores were spotless to the naked eye, but a few had definite signs of old pitting. No active rust, but sure signs there had been some in the past.

[SA1911a1]

That bore will certainly spin a bullet. I am curious as to whether you scrubbed it good or not. It looks, to my old eyes that there is dried gunk sitting on top of the metal.

[Lp1911]

Well, it’s quite accurate at distances up to 50 yards, but needs a slightly shorter front sight, 8.2 or 8.1 should do it. Guess as long as rifling and crown are good the bore surface and a less critical

[Mangrove]

It is my understanding that along with weapons vast amounts of Soviet made ammunition was captured during the Winter War. Was none of this later issued for use by Finnish troops?

Do keep in mind that most of the Finnish infantry were not equipped with a m/39 during the Continuation War but with m/91, m/24, m/27, m/28, m/28-30, m/30 and SVT-38/40. Certainly Soviet-made ammunition would have been used as it is with these rifles or Soviet bullets would have been reloaded by Valtion Patruunatehdas (VPT) using Finnish cases, powder and primers. For example, some hundreds of thousands of captured Soviet armour-piercing 7.62mm bullets were reloaded during the WWII due to lack of similar Finnish bullet production. However, I am not saying Soviet made ammunition were not used in m/39 rifles during the Continuation War but it would have more an exemption than a rule.

I have been collecting long enough to have bought M39's from the importers just after they were brought in from Finland in the 1980's , and later from the hoard one importer had been sitting on for many years before any of the rifles had reached the public. Most bores were spotless to the naked eye, but a few had definite signs of old pitting. No active rust, but sure signs there had been some in the past.

There are a lot of ways for pitting to appear on m/39 barrels during the post-war period other than shooting with corrosive ammunition. M/39 were issued as a main weapon to Finnish conscripts until 1972 and most of the conscripts probably never received a new rifle from the storage but an old one from the previous conscript.

[Junk Yard Dog]

It is my understanding that along with weapons vast amounts of Soviet made ammunition was captured during the Winter War. Was none of this later issued for use by Finnish troops?

Do keep in mind that most of the Finnish infantry were not equipped with a m/39 during the Continuation War but with m/91, m/24, m/27, m/28, m/28-30, m/30 and SVT-38/40. Certainly Soviet-made ammunition would have been used as it is with these rifles or Soviet bullets would have been reloaded by Valtion Patruunatehdas (VPT) using Finnish cases, powder and primers. For example, some hundreds of thousands of captured Soviet armour-piercing 7.62mm bullets were reloaded during the WWII due to lack of similar Finnish bullet production. However, I am not saying Soviet made ammunition were not used in m/39 rifles during the Continuation War but it would have more an exemption than a rule.

I have been collecting long enough to have bought M39's from the importers just after they were brought in from Finland in the 1980's , and later from the hoard one importer had been sitting on for many years before any of the rifles had reached the public. Most bores were spotless to the naked eye, but a few had definite signs of old pitting. No active rust, but sure signs there had been some in the past.

There are a lot of ways for pitting to appear on m/39 barrels during the post-war period other than shooting with corrosive ammunition. M/39 were issued as a main weapon to Finnish conscripts until 1972 and most of the conscripts probably never received a new rifle from the storage but an old one from the previous conscript.

I was contacted some years back by a former member of the Finnish army who recalled firing M39's on the range during his service in 1982. He saw one of my M39's in a youtube video and commented on the rifle, it was one of the late 60's date rifles.

[Mangrove]

I was contacted some years back by a former member of the Finnish army who recalled firing M39's on the range during his service in 1982. He saw one of my M39's in a youtube video and commented on the rifle, it was one of the late 60's date rifles.

All Finnish conscripts were issued a RK-60 or 62 as their primary weapons after 1972. Mosins were used sporadically at the ranges and exercises until the Finnish Defence Forces ran out of suitable ammunition and spare parts. Models m/27, m/28, m/28-30 were removed from the inventories of the Finnish Defence Forces in 1986 and the the rest of the Mosin rifles, apart from TKIV 85, a few years later. Early light machine guns lingered even longer and some artillery units were even issued Soviet-made DP 27 in the late 1980s during exercises (see photograph below from 1987).

[Junk Yard Dog]

I was contacted some years back by a former member of the Finnish army who recalled firing M39's on the range during his service in 1982. He saw one of my M39's in a youtube video and commented on the rifle, it was one of the late 60's date rifles.

All Finnish conscripts were issued a RK-60 or 62 as their primary weapons after 1972. Mosins were used sporadically at the ranges and exercises until the Finnish Defence Forces ran out of suitable ammunition and spare parts. Models m/27, m/28, m/28-30 were removed from the inventories of the Finnish Defence Forces in 1986 and the the rest of the Mosin rifles, apart from TKIV 85, a few years later. Early light machine guns lingered even longer and some artillery units were even issued Soviet-made DP 27 in the late 1980s during exercises (see photograph below from 1987).

In 1986 the US laws for importing surplus military firearms were amended to allow them to be imported again for the first time since 1968. Shortly after that a flood of strange " Russian rifles" began to appear at gun shows and in catalogs for dealers. The sold for $25-$45 US dollars and nobody seemed to know much about them. I bumped into my M24, and M28/30 around this time, both bought for under fifty US dollars. The 28/30 was a flea market find, the seller and myself know nothing about the rifle other than it appeared to be Russian, we settled on a $25 price, probably about $75-$100 in todays money adjusted for inflation. It was years before I found ammunition for it, and I shot it at the range for almost 20 years, it still makes range trips to this day. I was amazed at it's accuracy for what appeared to be a well used Soviet rifle, I wasn't able to identify it properly until getting the internet in the early 2000's. The M24 made many range trips also, but the sights were harder on my eyes, and the rifle was in very nice condition, I wanted it to stay that way. The gentleman on youtube did say he fired the M39 on the range, but he had something else as an issue weapon in 1982. There was one company that imported the bulk of M39's from the Finnish government in the late 1980's but then got in legal trouble with the US government on another matter. The hoard of M39's sat in storage for years until a deal was made to sell them to the public to liquidate the company's assets. Some 15 years ago we would see a weekly list of available M39's, most for what we would consider very low prices today. By this time they were selling to an educated group of collectors who knew what they were, and how well they likely would perform. Back then on this board you would have seen weekly posts from me on the latest new M39 I had acquired, or other Finnish Mosin rifle. I told everyone to buy as many as possible before I bought them all, some might have listened and now have a valuable collection today. I often wondered how many remained in Finland for Finnish collectors to enjoy with so many showing up here. Very few of the ones I bought had pitting of any kind in the bore, but pitting on the outside was more common. I used to seek these rifles out as they were priced cheaper as if pitting on the outside would make it shoot badly. Now everyone wants the " been there, and done that" look surplus rifles.

[SA1911a1]

Yep, it was a good time to get Burned in the gun buying business.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Yep, it was a good time to get Burned in the gun buying business.

Oh yes it was!

[Lp1911]

That bore will certainly spin a bullet. I am curious as to whether you scrubbed it good or not. It looks, to my old eyes that there is dried gunk sitting on top of the metal.

I did some more scrubbing after shooting. There were some bits of dirt in the pictures above, so I did more scrubbing before and then after shooting. I don’t have a bore scope, but using diffuse light I can see the “frosted” look, for lack of a better word. If I just take out the bolt and look through the barrel at the daytime sky, the bore looks shiny, but if I use a light that is bounced off a white tissue, the bore has some “texture” compared to the other two Finnish Mosins I have. In the end I just want it to be accurate and have some life left in it.

[Lp1911]

Yep, it was a good time to get Burned in the gun buying business.

Oh yes it was!

The good ones go for well over $1K on GunBroker, so one can make some good money given a large enough collection...

[Junk Yard Dog]

I remember buying a "48" marked, along with a 1967-1968-1969, and 1970 all at once just so I would have some late dates to mix in with the wartime date rifles. I guess that turned out to be a good idea.