1940 Izhevsk M38 in Laminated M38 Stock

[Inkedforlife76]

Hello. Stumbled upon a 1940 izhevsk m38
Refurb with pencilled numbers. Counter bored. Just curious on it being in a laminate stock. Stock has wrist bolt and toe splice.
Reading online 1940 shouldnt be in a laminated stock. Did this one luck out during refurb and get put into one.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. And is this combination not as common. Even for a refurb.

[Inkedforlife76]

More pics

[qz2026]

Funny, I saw a 1940 similar to this one in a laminated stock on GunBroker today. This M-38 was refurbished (triangle 2 stamp - 103rd GRAU Arsenal in Saransk). The stock was added during refurbishment as likely many other parts that were not original to the gun. The original stock, non laminated, either was non serviceable or used on another refurbishment. The Russians were not too concerned about mounting any of their refubs in "appropriate" or original stocks. The rifles were fitted to the next stock in the bin. They were more concerned about scrubbing and then force matching s/n's to the shank s/n.

[Inkedforlife76]

When they refurbished the stock. Did they add the wrist bolt then. And pure luck they grabbed the m38 stock its in now.

[qz2026]

The stock put on refurbs were the next one in line... Totally random. I don't know about "luck"... That's in the eyes of the beholder... The laminated stocks had weaknesses in the wrist and virtually all of them have at least one additional stock bolt in the wrist area. My thoughts are that this was done when the stocks were manufactured. I've had examples with two additional stock bolts even on some 9130's. But, for those, who knows when those particular stock bolts were installed.

[Inkedforlife76]

Luck yes for myself being at least its an m38 stock on an m38. Understandable just a typiccal day rebuilding for them. I greatly appreciate all the input.

[Junk Yard Dog]

These are all Soviet refurbished rifles done in the decades after WW2. These laminated stocks were put on the rifle during one of these refurbs. All of the parts except the barrel, and receiver started off on another rifle. The rifles came in, got torn down to the last part, parts put with other like parts and refurbished in bunches, then reasembled into a rifle at the end of the process. Pretty typical of any mass refurbishment program were thousands, or tens of thousands or more weapons are being refurbished at once. You can find any type of carbine stock on M38's, even M44 stocks. Same was done with our stuff pretty much constantly during a weapons service life. M1 rifles, M1 carbines, 1911 pistols, Ma Duce, whatever, Uncle would pull weapons out of circulation for periodic inspection, upgrading, and refurbishment, we didn't need a major war to make it necessary. We had field armorers in the field with the troops with equipment to swap M1 rifle barrels on the go for any and all reasons it might need to be done, any other part of the rifle as well. The commies seemed to be refurbing these out of date rifles and storing them away for militia use in the event we attacked the USSR. They would sometimes raid these stashes and send arms to their commie friends in North Korea, North Vietnam, and various other garden spots over the years. The Soviet Union collapsed from within before we could nuke them, and now we get to play with their toys.

[Inkedforlife76]

Replying to previous response i do see that one similar to mine is on gun broker. In two of his pics you can see its an m44 laminated stock. Versus mine being m38 laminated. Be interesting to see what his goes for being 1940. Out of curiousity what would a ballpark be on a m38 refurb in an m38 laminate stock.

[qz2026]

$300-$400+

It really is determined by the quality of the stock and the quality of the rifle refurbishment. Things like a counterbore, although not the end of the world, is not as desirable as a nice non-counterbored bore. The stock would make a difference to me. If a true M-38 stock, it will get a premium over an M-44 stock, even though the M-44 is "appropriate"... Some laminate stocks are just.... I'll say it... ugly, especially if they have mars or scratches on them. And, to me, they seem heavier or maybe just more bulky. M-38's have not been getting much love in the last five years or so. Difficult for me to understand but the buyer has changed significantly in that time. But, this is good for the buyers. I might be different than most but a refurbished 1940 in a refurbished war years or post war years stock, even laminated just doesn't do much for me. If in the original Pattern 1 or 2 stock or in a pristine M-38 birch stock, that's a different story.

[Inkedforlife76]

Id love to buy m38s for 3-4. Here in WI. Sellers are getting 300-450 for an m44. Not asking but actually selling for that. Been that way for couple of years. Youll find a cheap priced one now and then at pawn shop or flea market. Local show 2 weeks ago watched a 43 refurb in m44 stock walk out the door for 475.
I gotta move to cheaper selling states.

[Darryl]

Your stock seems to be a M38 "2nd pattern" laminated stock.

Most common for refurbs is the M44 laminated stock. On M38's this is a replacement stock, and was not on it during WWII

One of the most uncommon is the M38 "1st pattern" laminated stocks.
The laminations are so tight that you can't hardly tell they are even laminated.
Very small laminations.


Even harder to find are the 1st pattern and 2nd pattern solid wood "original" stocks.


Most M38's are refurbished and not wearing their original stocks. Just what they grabbed during refurbishment.


There are a few M38's that are wearing their original stocks. Mostly 1939 and they are Finn captured. They are rare as hen's teeth.
I own one and I think Miller owns one. His in 1st pattern and mine in 2nd pattern.


Darryl

[Inkedforlife76]

Im happy with it. All my 38s wear hardwood. And since 1994 this is the only laminate refurb m38 ive encounteted in all the shops, markets, shows and any other places ive been.
To me the history behind these firearms is what makes them all priceless and hope to keep that history alive and passed on.

[Darryl]

Im happy with it. All my 38s wear hardwood. And since 1994 this is the only laminate refurb m38 ive encounteted in all the shops, markets, shows and any other places ive been.
To me the history behind these firearms is what makes them all priceless and hope to keep that history alive and passed on.

It is a beautiful M38!

M38's are my favorite Russian Mosin.
I love carbines.

Darryl

[racerguy00]

Theres a couple of 40 date laminate stocked m38s at online auction now at one time which is interesting. Laminate plus the 40 date is two fairly uncommon features in one.

Of note, the early "1st" pattern laminate stocks may have been either made from k98k stock blanks or made on the same equipment. The lamination widths, color and such are pretty much spot on for k98k stocks. Shorter k98k blanks could also explain why no longer 91/30 laminate stocks of the "1st" pattern variety have never been seen.

[Inkedforlife76]

I see the one on gunbroker a 1940 in a m44 laminatr stock. Can see the bayonet cutout. Where are the others you are seeing. Id like to take a peek at those too.

[qz2026]

I've seen very few M-38's in laminated stocks, if any. But like all Mosins, they's probably a few of them out there somewhere. Nothing much seems to be impossible for these guns. Most that are in laminated stocks are in M-44 laminated stocks. The only laminated M-38 I had was a '44 Izhevsk in an M-44 stock. A triangle 25 gun from that was processed through Molot and she was a looker. I just think that at the time they were making laminated stocks, they were concentrating more on the M-44 and had stopped making stocks for M-38's all together. That's why so many refurbs found themselves in the M-44 stocks.

[Inkedforlife76]

The one i have is the only one ive personally seen in all the years ive been collecting. Even online searches dont yield many 1940 carbines for sale or sold. Let alone real m38 laminated stocks. I know mine ended up in the one its in during rebuid. Happier its laminated then hardwood. Ive seen early model and the usual later style hardwood ones alot looking in stores inventories when hunting. Not knowing at that time they were rare or special. But a laminated m38 on an m38 to me is rare refurb or not. Counter bored shellaced scratches or whatever doesnt detract from the history created by the soldier and tge carbine.

[qz2026]

I don't know that I'd use the word "rare". More appropriately, "uncommon". I suppose that finding a laminated M-38 stock would be an interesting find. Don't know that I'd be willing to pay a bonus for it though. It's really all in the eyes of the prospective buyer what the value is. And who knows... Perhaps these were purpose built laminated stocks for only M-38's until the Russian's questioned the dollars an cents of making a purpose made stock for an obsolete carbine.. Or, it's just as possible that some stock escaped the manufacturing plant without having the bayonet groove milled in. Alex might be a good guy to contact about this sort of thing. He would know.