The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:46 am**

My Romanian M44 has a lightly pitted bore.
After intense cleaning the rifle shoots worse now than before the major cleaning.
My question is, since I have been using.311 dia. Bullets, should I step up to a .312 ?

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:30 am**

You might do just as well to shoot it a while and minimize cleaning of the barrel. Intensive cleaning of an relic firearm is not recommended. Clean it just enough to keep it safe and functional. Of course, you could try a couple of shots with a .312 diameter bullet but you will need to examine the cartridge for signs of excessive pressure. A more expensive option is to have your gunsmith install a barrel sleeve.

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:18 am**

Most rifles require a few fouling shots before they start to shoot as well as they can. With the pitting, I would imagine it will take a few more. Also this rifle is 70+ years old. Expecting anything beyond minute of man accuracy is IMHO expecting too much. Granted most do way better than minute of man, but I don't go into expecting them to.

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:22 am**

Thanks for the advice gentlemen.
I’m going to try the .312 bullets and see what I end up with.
If that doesn’t work I’ll stop cleaning it for awhile.

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:52 pm**

My questions would be, what kind of accuracy are you getting, and what kind of accuracy do you expect?

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:08 pm**

SA1911a1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:52 pm My questions would be, what kind of accuracy are you getting, and what kind of accuracy do you expect?

Well!! Using .311 diameter Sierra bullets accuracy at 25 yards averages about 10”.
Before the door cleaning it was around 4-5” groups.
If I can get close to 3-4” groups, I would be happy.

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:22 pm**

Have you investigated the possibility of muzzle erosion? This would be a very common issue with these rifles, and the reason so many are found with counterbores. Cleaning from the muzzle with steel cleaning rods the same hardness as the barrel steel and no muzzle protector. Just sawing in and out endlessly for decades by poorly supervised conscripts. Try the quick and dirty bullet test. Stick a cartridge into the muzzle bullet first, see how far it goes in, that will give you an idea how badly worn your barrel crown is, and if it's worn then .312 bullets aren't going to help you much.

Posted: **Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:55 pm**

Bullet Test.

00005.jpg

If it goes way down in there & swallows up the bullet you have what is called a wallhanger. Halfway or less try to dirty the old girl up & see what you get.

I have some rifles with pristine bores that are "MEH"

on accuracy, and some with dirty old pitted bores that could smack a Knats @$$ at 100 Yards.

Clean it good enough then try it out. These bores will never come clean like new & trying usually makes a mess of things.

Good Luck & keep us posted!

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:56 am**

That is a strong crimp on that round.

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:41 pm**

Fr ameman1949 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:56 am That is a strong crimp on that round.

If your muzzle crown is just OK or better, it should show up rifling marks on the bullet if you force it in the muzzle a little.

Posted: **Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:31 pm**

Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:22 pm Have you investigated the possibility of muzzle erosion? This would be a very common issue with these rifles, and the reason so many are found with counterbores. Cleaning from the muzzle with steel cleaning rods the same hardness as the barrel steel and no muzzle protector. Just sawing in and out endlessly for decades by poorly supervised conscripts. Try the quick and dirty bullet test. Stick a cartridge into the muzzle bullet first, see how far it goes in, that will give you an idea how badly worn your barrel crown is, and if it's worn then .312 bullets aren't going to help you much.

I am seeing signs of muzzle / crown issues.
Is counter boring something that a skilled amateur could accomplish?

Posted: **Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:22 pm**

Posted: **Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:14 pm**

Fr ameman1949 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:31 pm
Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:22 pm Have you investigated the possibility of muzzle erosion? This would be a very common issue with these rifles, and the reason so many are found with counterbores. Cleaning from the muzzle with steel cleaning rods the same hardness as the barrel steel and no muzzle protector. Just sawing in and out endlessly for decades by poorly supervised conscripts. Try the quick and dirty bullet test. Stick a cartridge into the muzzle bullet first, see how far it goes in, that will give you an idea how badly worn your barrel crown is, and if it's worn then .312 bullets aren't going to help you much.
I am seeing signs of muzzle / crown issues.
Is counter boring something that a skilled amateur could accomplish?

This is an arsenal last ditch repair to save a marginal bore, it is not a home workshop job. Accept it as it is, what you have is what the last soldier to be issued this rifle had to live with. When it comes to milsurps if it doesn't explode in your face with the first pull of the trigger then you are ahead of the game.

Posted: **Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:02 pm**

I trust you are correct. It is what it is!!

Posted: **Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:38 am**

I think that one thing is certain. If you are maxing out at 10" groups at 75 feet, then barrel pitting is not your major concern. Are the rounds hitting square on or are the tumbling? I have had some Chinese type 44 variant rifles that would keyhole at ten yards.

Posted: **Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:31 am**

SA1911a1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:38 am I think that one thing is certain. If you are maxing out at 10" groups at 75 feet, then barrel pitting is not your major concern. Are the rounds hitting square on or are the tumbling? I have had some Chinese type 44 variant rifles that would keyhole at ten yards.

No keyholes. I’m starting to think that crown issues are my problem.

Posted: **Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:38 am**

Have you checked the action screws to make sure they are tight? If they aren`t it will cause a Mosin to shoot all over the place and they can loosen up while shooting.

Posted: **Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:30 pm**

Yes!
That was one of my first possible causes checked off the list. I’m pretty sure the problem is muzzle crown erosion.
I’m going to just shoot it and dirty it up to see if the groups start to tighten. I have made a few .312 diameter rounds that I will try tomorrow to gauge if that helps. At least it’s still staying on paper as it is.

Posted: **Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:26 pm**

Range report would indicate that the use of .312 dia. bullets has tightened my groups to 3.5”. That’s greatly improved.

Posted: **Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:01 am**

Fr ameman1949 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:26 pm Range report would indicate that the use of .312 dia. bullets has tightened my groups to 3.5”. That’s greatly improved.

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