1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

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zeebill
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1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by zeebill »

Just a well used 91/30 Izhevsk receiver with a possible replacement bolt in a Tula marked early stock with screwed in sling plates. Has a small B in a square on the badge plate and no refurb markings. There are no numbers on the bolt with just a small K on the root of the bolt arm and no other markings. The bore is cleaning up nice with normal cleaning and shooting. The hand guard has the front metal piece missing and looks to have been that way for quite awhile while the back one shows old paint and much patina.

Now the problem with this gun sounds exactly like sticky bolt syndrome it refuse to work right no matter what I have done to it. I have been working on it for over a month now and just quit a half a dozen times over that period. If you try and fire it the gun will load and shoot normal but when you try and extract the shell you have a recurring problem. You can unlock the bolt but it will not without using a rubber mallet extract the spent shell. Sometimes you have to hit it so hard the mag will open and spill the unused shells on the ground. There are not markings on any of the spent shells regardless of which type of ammo I use and believe me I have tried everything.

I have used a stainless steel shotgun brush chucked up in a drill motor with any kind of solvent you can name uncountable times. Changed interrupters and spring multiple times. Replaced mag housings and pushers multiple times. Changed entire bolts many times. Soaked the receiver over night in three or four different solvents multiple times and used a stainless brush on the inside of it too. I even used stainless steel wool on the brush I did the chamber with and used it saturated with carb cleaner till it shines. I can see nothing in that chamber and if you slide a bullet in there it seats itself in the chamber it is so clean without the bolt. This rifle has done this from the very first shot I ever tried to put through it so I know there is something I am missing but Joe and I have worked on this thing till we just set it aside in the shop in sheer frustration. Joe even suggested selling the rubber mallet with the rifle but my pride won't let me do that.

So there it is and believe me I am open to thoughts. :o Bill :oops:
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steelbuttplate
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by steelbuttplate »

ZB does it eject unfired rounds ok?
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Junk Yard Dog
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by Junk Yard Dog »

Sometimes a rifle is so worn out that it will never be right, these are called wall hangers, take it and hang it on the wall. It's now a looking at rifle, not a shooting one.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
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SA1911a1
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by SA1911a1 »

You did try an entirely new bolt I presume.
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joe7170
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by joe7170 »

Glad bill posted this in here. This thing is a bastard child for sure. I have played with it, shot till my shoulder was sore, Bill too, and it's left us both stumped. It will unlock a fired round just fine, it's when the knob is strait up, and you try to pull out that case, it binds up. First I thought the interrupter was somehow kicking the next round into bottom of bolt, and binding it, we changed interrupter about 5 times, tried after each replacement...... plus it binds up on last round in mag too. So that ain't it.

Funny thing is it only does this after firing. You can cycle a unfired round 100 times with no trouble. Thought some how it was extractor, changed bolt heads, nope. Changed bolts nope.... I think bill even stuck a new mag housing in it to...

I swear we have went though literally 100's of mosins in the last year or so, most work just fine others need tuning, this is the first that has stumped us. We have multiples of every spare part on hand, and have tried replacing them to no avail.

I might have to bring the bore scope and laptop bill and see if there is something hiding in the receiver recesses?

This is for us bill :bonk: :bonk:
RIP Kevin Carney. Your always in our hearts.
mproko
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by mproko »

Try several types of ammo?
zeebill
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by zeebill »

As I said in the original post several different types of ammo, even dug the junk steel stuff out! JYD in all my years I have never had a wall hanger. They all will shoot unless there is a safety problem. Till this one I always said poor fools they don't realize they all will shoot. This sucker has me stumped!!!! Bill :x
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by Junk Yard Dog »

You already shot it, it's not functioning despite everything you did, now you can hang it up having said you fired it. I suspect enough micro pits in the chamber to lock in the fired round, but small enough to not mark up the case in a way the eye can see.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
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zeebill
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by zeebill »

JYD the chamber shines like a piece of chrome I have worked on it so much with brush and steel wool. I even took a swab for a shotgun and used some J&B paste in there. The unshot shells fall completely into the chamber, it fits so effortlessly in there. If you push it with your finger in there and then tap the rifle on the floor the unspent shell fall out.

Been looking at Alex's book and chasing down the small markings. It has the sideways U inside an oval indicating it went to at least one repair depot. There is a circle with a K in it and a circle with TK in it too. Let's see there is also an o inside of an oval too. Serial YP 6064 matches butt plate which has tula star and importer serial is the same on receiver too. Barrel and sights are Izhevsk marked. I see no Finnish signs on the rifle anywhere. Will double check the tang markings this afternoon if I get time when I am out in the shop. I really appreciate the feed back as this one is driving me crazy! Then there are those who say that would be a short trip but whatever? Thanks Again Bill :?
joe7170
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by joe7170 »

Maybe we need a set of those gauges that Alex sold a while back that check the receiver recesses and such? :lol:

I'm stumped bill.
RIP Kevin Carney. Your always in our hearts.
M39 Shooter
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by M39 Shooter »

I had a similar problem, changed the connector for another Izhevsk one.
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steelbuttplate
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by steelbuttplate »

Take a fired case, compare it to another of the same ammo unfired, with a micrometer. Might be the case swelling making it stick :idea:
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mogunner
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by mogunner »

Find a smith that can take a chamber casting. It might be worn towards the barrel to the point where the case expands larger than the chamber is behind it.
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A1RADIOMAN
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by A1RADIOMAN »

steelbuttplate wrote:Take a fired case, compare it to another of the same ammo unfired, with a micrometer. Might be the case swelling making it stick :idea:
Ditto
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zeebill
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by zeebill »

steelbuttplate wrote:Take a fired case, compare it to another of the same ammo unfired, with a micrometer. Might be the case swelling making it stick :idea:
All cases swell just different amounts depending on the ammo and the chamber size. This is why I have tried so many different types of ammo hoping to find one that worked. I have one other thing to try based on something JYD said that got me thinking when I have time. More later I guess? Bill :?:
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NLMosin
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by NLMosin »

Make sure you post the problem/fix when you find out!
Is anyone starting a pool?
Whats the under/over on chamber problem?
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steelbuttplate
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by steelbuttplate »

zeebill wrote:
steelbuttplate wrote:Take a fired case, compare it to another of the same ammo unfired, with a micrometer. Might be the case swelling making it stick :idea:
All cases swell just different amounts depending on the ammo and the chamber size. This is why I have tried so many different types of ammo hoping to find one that worked. I have one other thing to try based on something JYD said that got me thinking when I have time. More later I guess? Bill :?:
I guess that's why they have to be resized when reloading. What I'm suggesting is maybe your chamber is wore out too big and don't work no mo. The case don't come out. Does that ever happen?
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racerguy00
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by racerguy00 »

If you haven't yet try loosening up the action screws before opening the bolt. I had one doing something similar and I noticed by accident if the screws.were loose it functioned. I think mine had been shimmed and they were lost at some point. It was binding something up when tightened without any.
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by musketjon »

Pull back on the cocking piece until it locks and then work the bolt. Works like a champ.
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FR0STY54R
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Re: 1938 91/30 round receiver Izhevsk trouble maker

Post by FR0STY54R »

You mentioned some mosins needing tweaking. How exactly does one go about tweaking the interrupter and magazine to stop the rifle from jamming.. I've tried almost everything and still cant get the rifles to feed reliably with clips.
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