The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Were there many different markings used on Tula's in 1912? Mine (in the center) is different from the other two examples I found of Tulas from the same time frame. Thanks!

I don't have any quite that old. I wasn't aware of the differences. Thanks for bringing the subject up. Maybe someone will provide a little more insight.

I have two 1916 PTGs. One is a Balkan and the other as it was.

Unfortunately Longcolt its the crest I was hoping to see. Your Balkin has the same font and layout as mine, but the scrub looks big enough to have been either of the crests. IMHO as I dont have it in my hand. The picture btw was very good so thats what Im basing my judgement on. Curious. Why are you ruling out the one in the lower picture as being Balkin? Are you thinking the crest has been removed by other hands?

You asked about 1912 rifles from Tula and that is the first year for the PTG marking. I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect there are at least some 1912 dated rifles that don't have the PTG marking (e.g. leftover barrels). I've never seen one, but I bet they're out there.

I guess I need to clarify why I am asking. In my OP the pic on the left is of the Imperial Tula Ordnance Factory. These were stamped this way from 1892-1912. But based on the lettering layout mine is not a 1912 from that run. The one in the middle is mine. It has a small crest also which more resembles the crest on the right pic which is of Tula Emperor Peter the Great Ordnance Factory with the stamping shown used from 1912-1918. But the crest on the right pic is much larger than mine. I guess I should have asked if there were different size crests stamped during the '12-18 year range.

My 1912 does have the PTG crest, but it is much smaller than the other example.

" Why are you ruling out the one in the lower picture as being Balkin? Are you thinking the crest has been removed by other hands? "

Other than it having no traits of it being a Balkan, I can't remember. Maybe I should do a side by side comparison of them. I bought them both 3 years ago a few weeks apart.

How is the top one of your two a PTG, Longcolt?

It says Ishevsk Ordnance Factory, Ishevskii Oroozhenyee Zarod, "ИЖЕВСКЇЙ Оружейный Зародъ"

But I don't even see a place where Emperor Peter the Great, Imperatora Petra Velikago, "ИМПЕРАТОРА ПЕТРА ВЕЛИКАГО" would fit on the shank.

I have a 1917 PTG that has had the Eagle scrubbed so I don't know what size it was. But I did find a 1914 PTG on the internet that has the small eagle like yours does.

Thanks Mike! Looks like your scrubbed one is also small based on the proximity of the scrub to the lettering but you are right is could go either way. Perhaps they used the smaller crest in the earlier years and the larger crest later...

Here's what a Google search turned up, by looking at pictures of the different years of the PTG run.

1912 Small Eagle
1913 Small Eagle
1914 Small Eagle
1915 Large Eagle
1916 Large Eagle
1917 Large Eagle
1918 Large Eagle (Rare as Hens Teeth, I THINK there are 4 known so far)

So from 1912-1914 they used the small eagle, and from 1915-1918 they used the large eagle. So this should answer your question. Now as to why they went from the small eagle to the big one, I couldn't find the answer/reason for that.

ffuries wrote:Now as to why they went from the small eagle to the big one, I couldn't find the answer/reason for that.

Peter wasn't great enough? Sorry, had to.

Awesome research Mike!! You da man!