First Mosin & a Couple of Questions

[Tuck]

Hi. After quite a while of thinking about it, I finally picked up an Izhevsk 91/30. Looking to cerakote the metal in pastel pink & paint the stock hot pink.

Psych! Just joking. It isn't anything super special or rare, but it was the one I came across & so far the numbers match, except for the bayonet. I have yet to begin cleaning cosmoline from this thing & there's a lot of it. Bore is dark, but it's also full of cosmoline. Rifling appears sharp, with no pitting. Stock looks pretty good too, without a lot of dents & scrapes, but according to another site, the sling slots are late/post war style. I've learned a lot about the rifle already thanks to this & other sites. Also got a spam can of ammo for it, but I have to order go/no go gauges & check headspace before range day, which will still be a ways away. If I like it, I might start looking for a shorter version like an M44.

It joins a 1943 Garand in the safe. My dad served in WWII & sent back a very nice German Mauser, but my brother has it & because of his crazy wife, I'll never see it again (why do wives frequently go crazy??? There should be a go/no go gauge for women before you marry them...at least I got lucky for the most part). Wish he had sent back two so it'd be in the safe too! I was lucky to get a Ward's Westernfield .22 made around 38-39, which was made by Mossberg...still a good shooter. My dad liked to tell stories about meeting the Russians very late/after the war & trading them things like junk watches for whatever good stuff they had lol.

Anyway, time for some questions from the experts. The muzzle is shiny, as all I've seen around here have been. Is this a refurb clue that it's been recrowned?

I'd like to get a sling for it, but I've seen canvas & leather ones. I'm guessing canvas is correct? Where is the best place to find a good, period correct one?

Any reason for the heavy stain (I'm assuming) marks on the stock? I'm leaving it as it is, just curious.

What did they use for a finish on these? It has what looks like black paint on it, but I don't think it's paint. I had a Russian SKS with a similar finish. Wish I still had that rifle.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know. I'll end the long post with some pics:

[redspoon]

to the forum. Very nice 91/30, yes it was refurbished probably in the fifties or sixties. All sub s/n's were scrubbed and restamped to match the serial number on the barrel shank. The box stamped under the date on the shank is a refurb mark as well as the box with a slash on the stock.

There should be a go/no go gauge for women before you marry them

[Rightwinger9]

I also am interested in knowing the answer to your question regarding the shiny muzzle. All mine have a shiny muzzle crown.

[tjtM38]

It is a refurbished Izhevsk M91/30 with a post war stock. A polished crown is common with these; I have several like that. Some rifles were counter-bored if the crown appeared worn or damaged. Most of the M91/30's on the market are factory refurbished pieces with good bores. I suspect yours is the same. The square with the diagonal on the stock appears to be a common marking, probably a refurbished indicator. Many of the metal markings are a flat mystery to me; so many on receiver, barrel and bolt. I can tell factory markings, but others I just don't know.

Canvas sling with leather "dog collar" attachments is the correct sling. The slings are readily available from several sites, as are other accessories. (bayonet, cleaning stuff, etc.)

The stocks were mainly beech with a stain and shellac finish. It is easily chipped or cracked if not kept in good storage. The finish is serviceable, but not very attractive. Some of my rifles have a nice, even blue finish that is often satin and not shiny. Black paint touch up in rough areas is common.

You need to get all of the grease out of the barrel, action and chamber before you attempt to fire the rifle. Although I have never had a headspace problem on a refurb, I have a set of gauges for added insurance. You should have the headspace checked on yours.

You have a nice rifle and you will find is a great shooter. It is the best bang for the buck in a surplus rifle. Welcome and good shooting.

[Tuck]

Thanks all. Good info. I can't do it right now, but I'll strip, clean, & go through it completely before it goes to the range. It came with a bayonet & cleaning kit, so the only thing I'm lacking is a sling. So far, I'm liking more than i thoughti would.

[entropy]

Hi. After quite a while of thinking about it, I finally picked up an Izhevsk 91/30. Looking to cerakote the metal in pastel pink & paint the stock hot pink.

Psych! Just joking.

Not funny!

OK, funny, but kinda twisted. I like that.

NIce 91/30!

[djbuck1]

Welcome!

You have a nice 1940 Izhevsk refurb. Even these are getting harder to find, and you can also count yourself fortunate to have inherited a Garand.

One of my refurbs has a similar blob of black paint on the stock, but it's on the underside of the stock. No one really knows why these show up.

[Tuck]

Thanks. I'm sure I'll leave it all as is.

Couple more questions. First, I've read about how bad the aftermarket stripper clips are. Do they really work? I have an unopened spam can of ammo. Will there be stripper clips in there as there are in US ammo boxes? I know I can load without them, just curious.

Do i really need a front sight tool? How accurate are these things right out of the refurb box? I've read about them being sighted with the bayonet, so I'm wondering if I'll need to adjust the sight.

Lastly, what makes Tula so much more desirable than Izhevsk? I can't find anything that says. Is Tula better quality?

I appreciate the help & patience as I learn my way around these things...lots of interesting history!

[WeldonHunter]

Thanks. I'm sure I'll leave it all as is.

Couple more questions. First, I've read about how bad the aftermarket stripper clips are. Do they really work? I have an unopened spam can of ammo. Will there be stripper clips in there as there are in US ammo boxes? I know I can load without them, just curious.

Do i really need a front sight tool? How accurate are these things right out of the refurb box? I've read about them being sighted with the bayonet, so I'm wondering if I'll need to adjust the sight.

Lastly, what makes Tula so much more desirable than Izhevsk? I can't find anything that says. Is Tula better quality?

I appreciate the help & patience as I learn my way around these things...lots of interesting history!

Stripper Clips are more of a curiosity than anything else and something people just like to have to add to the collection. They came on ammo produced mainly around WWII. Whether your ammo will be on strippers depends on when it was produced and where. A picture of the tin and the stenciling on it would help to determine what's in it without opening it. After market strippers are a PIA from my experience but there's a lot of places making them so some are better than others. Loading one round at a time isn't that much slower for what we do so it's not a big deal. Whether you need the front sight tool or not will only be determined once you take it out and shoot it. The tool helps to make more fine adjustments though. These were refurbished decades ago and not really sighted for accuracy if at all. Some are pretty close some are way off. The Tula versus Izhevsk thing is more about where/when they were being made and the numbers that were produced. There were more Izhevsk made rifles produced on the whole so there's a lot more of them. The quality is not an issue, they are both virtually the same.

[entropy]

Before you answer the sight tool question, shoot it first. You might not need one, depending on your needs and expectations. If you keep in mind these rifles were expected to hit the torso somewhere when aimed at the belt buckle, and not headshots, you'll probably be less concerned about accuracy as with your varmint rifle. Try shooting it with the bayonet on, if for nothing else, the experience. That is how they were set at the armory, because Russian (and later, Soviet) soldiers were expected to keep the bayonet on the rifle at all times. (Hence no Russian bayonet scabbards.)
As for Tula being more desirable than Ishevsk, you'll probably get different answers from different people. Some like the star better than the triangle or hammer and sickle, (Both symbols on Ishevsk rifles during different periods), some will say Tula rifles are rarer than Ishevsks, (true for a few years, but both put out so many overall that it is a moot point mostly), some may have heard of Tula, and not Ishevsk, (Or don't know how to pronounce Ishevsk ), and some are just parroting what they heard. I have a 1930 Tula 91/30 which is not an ex-dragoon, thus first year production. IIRC, production of new 91/30's began at Tula before Ishevsk, so I value it a bit more than I would a 1930 Ishevsk. (Not that I'd pass up a '30 Ishevsk, I just happened to find the Tula first.) That's just my personal reason. My favorite arsenal is actually Sestroryetsk, both because it's fun to say, and they only made Mosins from 1896 to 1918.

[Tuck]

Great info & fast! Thank you. It'll still be a while before I can take this one to the range, but I'm looking forward to it. I could be going to Arizona for 90 days for work too. Sucks to have it sit in the safe for so long. I'll post up how it shoots when I finally get to do it.

Here's the ammo can.

[WeldonHunter]

No strippers in this can. It's 440rds of Romanian factory 22 made in 1975, most likely 147gr steelcore with silver paint identifier on the tips of the bullet, corrosive berdan primed. Make sure you clean after each time you shoot. Here's a good guide to go by for cleaning initially and after shooting corrosively primed surplus. http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... =66&t=6932

[Tuck]

Just read through that entire thread. Good reading. I think you're correct on the ammo, the loose rounds I got with the spam can were silver tipped. Thanks.

[WeldonHunter]

Just read through that entire thread. Good reading. I think you're correct on the ammo, the loose rounds I got with the spam can were silver tipped. Thanks.

All the silver paint is on those rounds is to identify that they're steelcore. They aren't any better or worse quality or accuracy wise. They stopped doing it about the mid 80s. Here's a few other links with a bunch of great reading and info. too. http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... m.php?f=66 and http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/ and http://7.62x54r.net/

[Tuck]

Thanks, that's a lot of reading. There's almost too much info out there on these things. It's very interesting, but it's taking up too much of my time lol. Definitely some great history with these rifles. Wish I could shoot it, but I really don't know when it'll be. I'm pretty happy with it, but I won't be 100% connected to it until the trigger is pulled.

[Tuck]

In the never ending fight to clean the cosmoline out, I noticed the chamber face. There was a flake of something, I couldn't tell what, but it made me look at the area it came from. The pics aren't that great, but does this look normal? I've never had a weapon that didn't have a thick, uniform face. Is this ok, or is this rifle just an over-the-mantle piece?

[WeldonHunter]

If you're talking about the groove on the one side of the chamber rim, that's supposed to be there and is where the extractor rides while over the rim of the cartridge when you are opening and closing the bolt. Here's one of mine. Oh and FYI, that isn't real cosmoline you're cleaning off the rifle. It's grease. True cosmoline is a real bitch to clean. The Russians used a type of grease as a preservative.

[Tuck]

That whole area on mine looks jagged. Yours looks much better. Maybe some of that on mine is the result of steel cleaning rods, I don't know. I just want to feel safe shooting it...I was considering skipping it, but I have go/no go gauges in the mail.

Oh, whatever grease they used is being a pain in the barrel. It's soaking now.

[tjtM38]

In the chamber photos it looks like you have some kind of metal chamber burr. If so, you gotta get that out of there somehow then clean the chamber with a small shotgun brush and patches and inspect the chamber area again. When you do all of that, it would be nice if you had a proper size snap cap or dummy round, you could try chambering that and just see if it chambers normally and extracts normally. Yeah; when I zoomed in on your photo a second time, that looks like a piece of metal. There are also some kind of tool marks on the chamber face. I hope some Commie or Bubba didn't try to do some combat gunsmithing on the chamber with an improper tool.

[WeldonHunter]

Looking at your pictures again it does look like it may have a problem but it could also be the lighting. We'd need some clearer pictures to tell you anything further. The area that's depressed, where the extractor rides is not going to be a machined surface. It's just a cast depression. That area will be thin, almost sharp. We need clearer pictures. Take some outside in better light maybe. I have to take a bunch of picutres from different angles and in different light to get decent ones sometimes.