The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

2-1/2 years ago I purchased a Model 44 Mosin Nagant manufactured by Tula in 1944. Being a bit on the rare side I jumped at the chance of owning one. The sellers pictures were enough to confirm what the rifle was and exterior was in good or better condition. The barrel was counter bored and the bore in fair to good condition. The bore shows wear and the grooves are very dark.

Because I had plenty of Mosin Nagants to play with, I wasn't in a hurry to tackle the bore cleaning of the Tula M44. Well, the long nasty winter here in Minnesota has given me the indoor time to see just what the Tula M44 bore has to offer.

I have worn out two brushes so far and the patches still come out black/blue black. This rifle is going to require a lot of scrubbing and soaking with bore cleaner between scrubbings to get to a point where the patches will come out more on the grey side, instead of black. When I get to that point I will hope for a day when the wind is out of the south and the temperature is around 30 degrees. Then I will put some Russian 147 grain silver tip ammo through the M44 Tula. Hopefully it will shoot on target at 50 yards where I start with surplus rifles, until I know I can go out to 100 yards and still stay on target.

I had been able to hand pick all of my 91-30's, Russian and polish M44's and 91-59, so they all have great bores and shoot great also. Still looking for a nice M38. I saw two at the gun show this weekend but the one on the right stock was counter bored and the other was on a M44 stock. I didn't look at the bores since I hadn't decided to buy one. Asking price was $350.00 each with all the paper work. I figured the price was on the high side for a M38 that wasn't all that great. Maybe I was wrong, but It didn't cost me $350.00 either.

I had the same problem with mine, the bore and barrell were filthy. Which Is to be expected for a $90 rifle. I soaked the entire reciever in mineral spirits over night then take it out and dry it off. Then oiled the entire thing down so Iit wouldnt rust. I used castrol 5w-30 motor oil, which acutually helps darken the black color if its starting to fade. Then ran some more patches though it. Then It was still a lil dirty so i poured boiling water down it then cleaned it with the rods again.

Sounds like it's been around, nice

What is wrong with a counter bore? I kind of like em. Once you get to the gray patches and start shooting it some I bet it will look much better.

Cleaning a dirty bore is simple. Clean out obstructions. Shoot. Clean. Admire. Repeat as necessary.

I never get too obsessive about the bores on my milsurps. Save for the few with new condition bores the rest all have debris in the grooves, pitting & no matter how much time I invest cleaning them they still produce dirt on my patches. All your gonna do is wear out your bore faster cleaning than if you just went to the range & blasted 1,000 rounds at targets.

My advice? Get it "Good Enough", oil the bore liberally with Break-free CLP & leave it.

A counter bore is nothing more than a tool used by the shooter to make a bore out almost to the optimum of accuracy again. It is nothing more than that and anyone who thinks differently is missing a bunch of fine shooting veteran bores and weapons. It is simply put their loss which leaves a lot more for me so pass them up folks I love it when you do. Bill

Today I finished cleaning the bore when the patches started coming out more gray than black. The bore is quite evenly frosted and rifling is fairly strong.

I sluged the bore using one of my special LBT molds that casts a .315" diameter bullet. The bullet nose is .309" diameter. It took 3.0 grains of Unique to push the bullet out of the barrel and into a box of tightly packed rags. The fired bullet checked .315" groove diameter on the driving bands, no change. The bullet nose was heavily engraved by the lands of the bore and the nose now checked .310" suggesting the bore diameter of this barrel is .310" or more. So, the groove diameter is at least .315" and maybe a bit more. I had no problem chambering this this oversized bulleted round seated to the normal depth. Plenty of room is the chamber and throat of the bore for this round.

These bore sluged diameters suggest there is little hope of the rifle shooting well with the surplus 7.62x54R ammo that has bullets that are .311" diameter. In fact this may explain why the grooves of the bore were so full of carbon. But, there is hope for the custom cast bullet from my LBT mold. Leading may or may not be a problem. I have a few old war horses with frosted barrels the don't lead. It is worth a try and can't hurt anything.

Still waiting for a 30 degree day. Today at mid day the temperature is still below zero and the rest of the week is going to be very cold.

The Bolt Man wrote:2-1/2 years ago I purchased a Model 44 Mosin Nagant manufactured by Tula in 1944. Being a bit on the rare side I jumped at the chance of owning one. The sellers pictures were enough to confirm what the rifle was and exterior was in good or better condition. The barrel was counter bored and the bore in fair to good condition. The bore shows wear and the grooves are very dark.

Because I had plenty of Mosin Nagants to play with, I wasn't in a hurry to tackle the bore cleaning of the Tula M44. Well, the long nasty winter here in Minnesota has given me the indoor time to see just what the Tula M44 bore has to offer.

I have worn out two brushes so far and the patches still come out black/blue black. This rifle is going to require a lot of scrubbing and soaking with bore cleaner between scrubbings to get to a point where the patches will come out more on the grey side, instead of black. When I get to that point I will hope for a day when the wind is out of the south and the temperature is around 30 degrees. Then I will put some Russian 147 grain silver tip ammo through the M44 Tula. Hopefully it will shoot on target at 50 yards where I start with surplus rifles, until I know I can go out to 100 yards and still stay on target.

I had been able to hand pick all of my 91-30's, Russian and polish M44's and 91-59, so they all have great bores and shoot great also. Still looking for a nice M38. I saw two at the gun show this weekend but the one on the right stock was counter bored and the other was on a M44 stock. I didn't look at the bores since I hadn't decided to buy one. Asking price was $350.00 each with all the paper work. I figured the price was on the high side for a M38 that wasn't all that great. Maybe I was wrong, but It didn't cost me $350.00 either.

Tell me why the counter-bore on a refurbished rifle was a deal killer? It is an improvement, not a detractor for a shooter, and I don't see it as a detractor on an otherwise rebuilt rifle either.

Initially the counter bored muzzle was a deterrent for me but I came around. It is just a personal preference for some. A little closer to perfection.

As for counter boring, whenever possible I prefer a rifle I add to my collection to be as close to original as possible. If the rifle is just a shooter then the counter bored rifle may be more accurate than an original with a little rod wear.

I guess I shouldn't have been surprised about the larger bore size of the Tula M44. I looked back at my records for my Polish M44 that I purchased in unissued condition. It has the same large bore size, new out of the box. Even the .315" diameter LBT bullets leave black ring type bullet holes on white target paper indicating the bullet doesn't completely seal the bore allowing some blow by.

The Polish does shoot very acurately with the LBT bullet and nearly as good with a Lyman 314299 200 grain gas check bullet sized .314" even though the bullets are slightly undersized for the bore.