Barrel Ring Problem

[martin08]

yoy503,

My apologies for my last remarks.

To understand why the conversation is going in weird directions, perhaps it might do us all some good to bring the culture of the forum into the light.

This is what is referred to as a "preservationist forum" where discussion of firearm refinishing is prohibited. It should explain the members' reactions. If you have a chance, a review of the forum rules may be the next action to take. Thanks for understanding.

[desdem12]

You and your dad did a nice job on it, but as Martin said we don't talk refinishing here. It destroys the history of the weapon. The history that is written with all the stock cartouches and dings and also arsenal repairs of the stock. To refinsh one takes all those marks off snd the history along with it. I applaud you and your dad for working together in something you enjoy. You are welcome to this forum and I would like to ask that you take some time here and look around at the topics and threads of other rifles and maybe absorb some of the history of these fine guns. It might possibly take hold in you as it has in amny of us and manifests as what we like to call mosinitis. You may find yourself caught up also and maybe buying another one and keep it original to compare with the refinished one. Welcome and check out some of the other guns!!!

[bunkysdad]

Hi yoy, thank you for inquiring about the problem you have with the hand guard moving, and as was stated above please understand where we are coming from when we talk about preservation. It is kind of like finding a antique piece of furniture and before finding out that it is considered more valuable in it's original condition, you sand it down, glue on a few custom pieces, and paint it antique white. Is it still the same piece of furniture? Of course but the whole meaning of the antique has changed when it is presented as a antique.
I know you didn't come here and say hey look at my new antique rifle. It's just that most of the people that are into not only Mosins, but many other old
historical firearms, well that is what we see when we look at them.
Ok back to your gun. I know you have a lot of pride in it. it is a beautiful looking stock and you and your dad worked it together, and believe me, if it was mine it would be my favorite of all time, because my dad died in April 1998. The color of the stain, the way the finish brings out the grain of the wood is beautiful. I guarantee one thing, no Mosin Nagant defended Russia against the Nazis, or fell at the feet of Finland soldiers during the Winter War at the ratio of 40:1 enemy killed that looked so beautiful. That is why you are gonna catch some flack for stripping , sanding, and staining a historical relic that was sold as surplus, even though you are free to do so.
Finally the reason that the hand guard may be moving is due to good old recoil, and these have plenty of that. Now welcome to the forum, and dont get all siled up!
Best regards, Russell




Ya gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?~ Josey Wales

[yoy543]

i think ill just but a barrel cover ring for $6 dollars and be done with it lol. i work a summer job and i dont have the money to blow on another one. i got the one i have now as a gift but still

[Longcolt44]

You might as well just use hose clamps at thia point. All history has been removed from the rifle. Please re-read the general rules

[Rongo]

You and your dad did a nice job on it, but as Martin said we don't talk refinishing here. It destroys the history of the weapon. The history that is written with all the stock cartouches and dings and also arsenal repairs of the stock. To refinsh one takes all those marks off snd the history along with it. I applaud you and your dad for working together in something you enjoy. You are welcome to this forum and I would like to ask that you take some time here and look around at the topics and threads of other rifles and maybe absorb some of the history of these fine guns. It might possibly take hold in you as it has in amny of us and manifests as what we like to call mosinitis. You may find yourself caught up also and maybe buying another one and keep it original to compare with the refinished one. Welcome and check out some of the other guns!!!

Well said.

Welcome to the forum yoy543, I'm sure at this point we let the wind out of your sails. You & your Dad worked together refinishing your 91/30 only to have us cringe at the thought. But as stated, this is a preservation forum & we do not refinish guns here.

[bunkysdad]

I'm even thinking maybe I came across a little syrupy, but definitely don't use a hose clamp-he was kidding-you were kidding right? Get the new band spring and see if it works. Come back and let us know and let us know how you like shooting it.

Ya gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?~ Josey Wales

[mosinmike17]

My M91/30 barrel bands won't move. I've accepted this. It's got the clamp kind, I don't see any screws or anything, just two fitted pieces of metal. I doubt those open up without never closing again. Would my doubt be correct, or do my bands move after all? (The spring presses down, the band wont budge to slide over it)

Yours will move. Just oil them up and gently persuade them and they will come off. At the bottom there is a gap that you can see if you gently widen this gap they will move off and should go off easy from there. Not to much though or you will break them. Oil up the stock there and they should come off.

Worked. Much appreciated. I no longer accept stupid capitalist pig dog solution of "accept that it doesn't open."

No offense on the refinishing of the rifle OP, cosmetically it may look great, and sure, it might help avoid wear and tear, but you just stripped a rifle that quite possibly went through a world war as is if not just reassembled from parts that went through said world war, and if you get where I am going with history...

Just keep in mind for future Mosin purchases that they've managed to get through the better part of a century and some examples longer as is without modern capitalist refinishing technique.

(Post best read in fake russian accent..and at least you got some father/son time in..there are some positives...maybe? smh)

[yoy543]

You might as well just use hose clamps at thia point. All history has been removed from the rifle. Please re-read the general rules

i made sure we didnt sand out any of the markings left on the stock and all of the dents and scratches the solder put in the wood are still there

[yoy543]

My M91/30 barrel bands won't move. I've accepted this. It's got the clamp kind, I don't see any screws or anything, just two fitted pieces of metal. I doubt those open up without never closing again. Would my doubt be correct, or do my bands move after all? (The spring presses down, the band wont budge to slide over it)

Yours will move. Just oil them up and gently persuade them and they will come off. At the bottom there is a gap that you can see if you gently widen this gap they will move off and should go off easy from there. Not to much though or you will break them. Oil up the stock there and they should come off.

Worked. Much appreciated. I no longer accept stupid capitalist pig dog solution of "accept that it doesn't open."

No offense on the refinishing of the rifle OP, cosmetically it may look great, and sure, it might help avoid wear and tear, but you just stripped a rifle that quite possibly went through a world war as is if not just reassembled from parts that went through said world war, and if you get where I am going with history...

Just keep in mind for future Mosin purchases that they've managed to get through the better part of a century and some examples longer as is without modern capitalist refinishing technique.

(Post best read in fake russian accent..and at least you got some father/son time in..there are some positives...maybe? smh)

Oh i forgot to tell you all when we first got the gun we gave it a good long look and we are pretty sure it never went through a battle of any kind. the condition of the rifling and the stock tells me that it was probably only shot a few times

[WeldonHunter]

Oh i forgot to tell you all when we first got the gun we gave it a good long look and we are pretty sure it never went through a battle of any kind. the condition of the rifling and the stock tells me that it was probably only shot a few times

That's very unlikely. Some were in better shape than others depending on when they were reasenaled but they were mostly all on the battlefield or some other service and if you did manage to get one that wasn't it would have "been" very very valuable. If you could take some close up pictures of the marks we can confirm this for you and tell you more about the rifle. Here's a post I made with the type of pictures I'm talking about and some of the marks we look for. http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... f=5&t=1333 Condition and even matching numbers doesn't mean anything as far as what the rifles history is because they were rearsenaled and then stored until they came here. Numbers were matched to sometimes even look like they were original to the untrained eye. Slight diffences in the numbers font are a dead give away.

[audadvnc]

Is somebody trying to yank the collective chain here?

[Junk Yard Dog]

I'm even thinking maybe I came across a little syrupy, but definitely dont use a house clamp-he was kidding-you were kidding right? Get the nw band clamp and see if it works. Come back and let us know and let us know how you like shooting it.

Ya gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?~ Josey Wales

No, you came across fine, the USSR had such a dire need for rifles in 1941-44 that it sent some out into the field with rough cast receivers, unfinished stocks, and no bluing. Chance is if the rifle was made at that time or before it's seen action someplace no matter how nice it looks today. You doing just fine Russell, chain yanking? I don't think so, but I am watching, my eye is cast in this direction

[yoy543]

here is some pics of all of the markings on the gun. i couldnt find any that where deep enough for recognition on the stock










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[WeldonHunter]

I'm even thinking maybe I came across a little syrupy, but definitely dont use a house clamp-he was kidding-you were kidding right? Get the nw band clamp and see if it works. Come back and let us know and let us know how you like shooting it.

Ya gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?~ Josey Wales

No, you came across fine, the USSR had such a dire need for rifles in 1941-44 that it sent some out into the field with rough cast receivers, unfinished stocks, and no bluing. Chance is if the rifle was made at that time or before it's seen action someplace no matter how nice it looks today. You doing just fine Russell, chain yanking? I don't think so, but I am watching, my eye is cast in this direction

I don't remember if this was brought up but has anybody given thought to the ring maybe not fitting tight now because of the refinishing that was done? The wood/shellac that was removed might not give the rear barrel clamp enough of a platform to grip. Along with maybe some shrinkage in the wood this may be why it's a bit loose. In any case you should look at the split in the clamp to see how far apart it is when installed. The clamps have a male and female side where they meet at the split. Take a picture of that and give us a look.

[WeldonHunter]

1943 Izhevsk barrel with at least one force matched number and that would be the magazine floorplate. It's been to the arsenal at least once and to the battlefeild many times most likely. Did you remove the barrel/receiver from the stock when you refinished it? I ask because in one picture I can see where it looks like it may have been refinished while still assembled and this goes back to "Is the barrel/receiver tight enough to the stock?" There's 2 screws that hold the barrel to the stock. One is in front of the magazine floorplate and the other is under the safety knob on the bolt. Don't overtighten them but they should be snug. There's another number you may be interested in and that's the receiver date That's on the rear mounting tang that the screw under the safety knob screws into. The rifle needs to be disassembled to see this because it's on the underside of the tang.

[mosinjunkie]

THE REAR BARREL BAND RETAINER IS NOT RETAINING THE BARREL BAND.

[mosinmike17]

^--I think you can actually see that in one of the pictures. I think this needs a sticky and renamed to "what happens when you 'mod' a mosin?" Nothing personal OP, I just figure you weren't expecting the kind of responses based on your excitement (see after next paragraph for that explanation)

OP, after the war, odds are your rifle was rearsenaled to look as good as it did before you guys got hold of it, then thrown in kosmoline and left to store until it wound up in your hands. There may have been a few years of reissue before the final step, but the fact is, that is a decent 1943 example untouched. In 20 years, you may have ten timed or even more your value had you left it alone. With the refinish, you have ruined any chance of profiting on this rifle barring a visit to an unsuspecting pawn shop. The good news is if it's a personal one, which obviously it is since the time you put in, it wont matter. But should you pass along and a great grandson recognizes that "ruskie rifle from the history channel on grandaddy's wall mount" and starts thinking its about to pay off a semester of college, he'll be disappointed.

It's against forum rules to make permanent changes to the weapon. I'm newer here, I leave policing to moderators, but that's why you've gotten some smart ass answers and slack in general. Don't take my word as gospel but they're either ok with this for reasons of their own or are just seeing where this plays out, but in general, this thread went taboo when you said "refinish." (I don't personally care, again, this is not attacking you and speculation. I think I know because I ghosted this forum for info long before joining)

Thanks for your contribution. All history aside, you did a nice job. Fix your rear barrel band by sliding it where it has been grooved to fit over the decades, if the guy above me is righ it will not stay there, this can be corrected by ordering a new spring. Most people who love these rifles would take yours from you and try to refinish it yet again with shellac for historical accuracy..here we'd call it a rescue in general. But it's not as ugly as if you guys threw on some camo or something..it's clear some effort was made to retain war time coloring, so thanks for doing at least that.

Use her in good health, just plan on buying a few more and not touching them if you anticipated on collecting.

[yoy543]

I'm even thinking maybe I came across a little syrupy, but definitely dont use a house clamp-he was kidding-you were kidding right? Get the nw band clamp and see if it works. Come back and let us know and let us know how you like shooting it.

Ya gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?~ Josey Wales

No, you came across fine, the USSR had such a dire need for rifles in 1941-44 that it sent some out into the field with rough cast receivers, unfinished stocks, and no bluing. Chance is if the rifle was made at that time or before it's seen action someplace no matter how nice it looks today. You doing just fine Russell, chain yanking? I don't think so, but I am watching, my eye is cast in this direction

I don't remember if this was brought up but has anybody given thought to the ring maybe not fitting tight now because of the refinishing that was done? The wood/shellac that was removed might not give the rear barrel clamp enough of a platform to grip. Along with maybe some shrinkage in the wood this may be why it's a bit loose. In any case you should look at the split in the clamp to see how far apart it is when installed. The clamps have a male and female side where they meet at the split. Take a picture of that and give us a look.

it did the same thing before i refinished it

[desdem12]

HAng in there yoy it wil be fine. Try the new barrel band spring and see if that works if it doesnt then you may find a temporary fix. Like i said i have one that does that and i shoot it regularly and haven't yet fixed it but will get around to it sometime. Take that one out and shoot it and tell us how she does. I'll bet you will be impressed by it as the latter years are usually good shooters. Save up your money and maybe check out some of the other mosins available and you will more than likely find one you'll like. Have fun with that old Izhevsk.