Help needed!

[Kuperkeikkari]

I once posted (months ago) about this M91 Ishevsk Dragoon dated 1907 with odd rear sight markings. I've still got nothing on what it is.

But now I've got some pictures from markings under the barrel, if someone knows what these mean, help would be appreciated.
Maybe these markings tell us why the rear sight markings are 300, 400, 550, 700 and 850. The finish is a bit brownish, weird for a 1907 ishevsk.
Rear sight leaf is changed and the receiver is also not original. The barrel has a lot of markings, I've got no clue what they mean.
Stock is German captured, caliber is still 7,62mm. I thought the caliber is something else than 7,65mm but it definetly is 7,62mm.
The rear sight has Ishevsk markings too and the numbers are well made, at the factory most likely.

Thanks in advance!

[Junk Yard Dog]

These rifles are covered with small markings, the older they are the more markings there will be. They indicate something was inspected by someone at some point in the rifles history from when it was new, and again each time it was upgraded, or repaired, given a refurbishment. The letters would be attached to a particular inspector or maybe just indicate that someone had inspected a specific part of the rifle. No way to tell who or what that was. Every milsurp rifle will have something similar on it someplace.

[racerguy00]

The graduations match up to the same distances the Finns stamped on their mosin sight bases when converting to meters from arshins. There were a few different variations in the ways they did it. Ive seen one Finn-used m91 marked identically to yours. Since there's no other Finn traits maybe it was an early one that never made it back to an arsenal to be D or SA stamped etc later on?

[willyj73]

Izhevsk is notorious for having a TON of markings on the barrel and receiver. IDK if this practice followed into the Soviet era; but all/most of the Imperial era Izhevsks that I've seen have a ton of inspection/acceptance markings like your rifle has. These aren't unusual.

[Kuperkeikkari]

The graduations match up to the same distances the Finns stamped on their mosin sight bases when converting to meters from arshins. There were a few different variations in the ways they did it. Ive seen one Finn-used m91 marked identically to yours. Since there's no other Finn traits maybe it was an early one that never made it back to an arsenal to be D or SA stamped etc later on?

Thanks for the reply! I noticed it too, the confusing thing is that it seems that these graduations we're made to "clean metal", meaning that the rear sight didn't have any markings before the 300, 400 etc. marks. Usually the rear sight has the original arshin graduations which are crossed over and meters added to the right side of the sight or some other modification, but this looks like it's been meters straight from the factory. I've never in my life seen these marks and I've seen hundreds of Finnish mosins, they cannot be very usual...
Is there any possibility that Ishevsk made a very small batch of rifles with meter scale graduation..? The font and stamping seems very original.

[Kuperkeikkari]

Izhevsk is notorious for having a TON of markings on the barrel and receiver. IDK if this practice followed into the Soviet era; but all/most of the Imperial era Izhevsks that I've seen have a ton of inspection/acceptance markings like your rifle has. These aren't unusual.

I know the barrel markings arent unusual, the rear sight graduations are.
I thought if someone knew about the markings under the barrel that could refer to the graduation scale and why it's in meters..

[Kuperkeikkari]

These rifles are covered with small markings, the older they are the more markings there will be. They indicate something was inspected by someone at some point in the rifles history from when it was new, and again each time it was upgraded, or repaired, given a refurbishment. The letters would be attached to a particular inspector or maybe just indicate that someone had inspected a specific part of the rifle. No way to tell who or what that was. Every milsurp rifle will have something similar on it someplace.

Thanks for the reply, I thought if someone knew about the markings under the barrel that could refer to the graduation scale and why it's in meters.
Like willyj replied, I know that Ishevsk is really known for stamping the *** out of the barrels.
The rear sight meter markings are the main question of the thread

[Junk Yard Dog]

That would have been done by any of the non Russian users of these rifles, as nobody but the Russians used the Arshins system of measure. Even they didn't in the communist era.

[Kuperkeikkari]

That would have been done by any of the non Russian users of these rifles, as nobody but the Russians used the Arshins system of measure. Even they didn't in the communist era.

Did some rifles come from the Ishevsk factory without the measurements? Since the markings are made to pure metal and it doesn't look like there's any markings under these numbers.

[racerguy00]

Early Izhevsk dragoons with the type 1 handguard had no sight graduations on the sight base. They were on the handguard itself as weird as that sounds.

Photos copyright 7.62x54r.net

[willyj73]

Izhevsk is notorious for having a TON of markings on the barrel and receiver. IDK if this practice followed into the Soviet era; but all/most of the Imperial era Izhevsks that I've seen have a ton of inspection/acceptance markings like your rifle has. These aren't unusual.

I know the barrel markings arent unusual, the rear sight graduations are.
I thought if someone knew about the markings under the barrel that could refer to the graduation scale and why it's in meters..

The markings under the barrel have nothing to do with the rear sight markings--the barrel markings are just typical Izhevsk markings. I've tried to find another rear sight that is marked like yours and I cannot find one. The font style looks very familiar. Numbers are in meters like the Finns would mark on the opposite side of the rear sight---only they would have used "hundreds of meters" rather than actual meters.
Below is a photo of my non Finn 1916 dated Izhevsk dragoon. Same type of markings on the barrel. The rest of the barrel has scattered markings.

[Kuperkeikkari]

Early Izhevsk dragoons with the type 1 handguard had no sight graduations on the sight base. They were on the handguard itself as weird as that sounds.

Photos copyright 7.62x54r.net

OH yes, I forgot! That's true, they were in the handguard. But the font of these markings doesn't seem Finnish, and they're put there as deep as the Ishevsk logo. Really interesting. I had one dragoon with the handguard graduations, pretty rare. I attached a pic too.

[Kuperkeikkari]

Izhevsk is notorious for having a TON of markings on the barrel and receiver. IDK if this practice followed into the Soviet era; but all/most of the Imperial era Izhevsks that I've seen have a ton of inspection/acceptance markings like your rifle has. These aren't unusual.

I know the barrel markings arent unusual, the rear sight graduations are.
I thought if someone knew about the markings under the barrel that could refer to the graduation scale and why it's in meters..

The markings under the barrel have nothing to do with the rear sight markings--the barrel markings are just typical Izhevsk markings. I've tried to find another rear sight that is marked like yours and I cannot find one. The font style looks very familiar. Numbers are in meters like the Finns would mark on the opposite side of the rear sight---only they would have used "hundreds of meters" rather than actual meters.
Below is a photo of my non Finn 1916 dated Izhevsk dragoon. Same type of markings on the barrel. The rest of the barrel has scattered markings.

OK thanks for reply. First I thuoght that is there something made to the caliber etc. but yes, they're in meters and the caliber is 7,62. So there shouldn't
be any definitive marks under the barrel. Thank you for the comparison picture.

And I agree, the font is really familiar! And the graduations are stamped in the same way as the Ishevsk logo, and just as deep. It really seems like it went to the factory for refurbishment and they put meter scale to the rear sight, although that's probably not possible
It's also true, it probably isn't a Finnish marking, I've never seen Finns use actual meters, they're in the hundreds like you said.
Truly a weird piece, only if it could talk.