WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Had this rifle for many years and never shot it. Beautiful, near-pristine condition. Finally gave it a thorough cleaning; bore looked fair, with easily visible grooves. Headed to the range next day.
At 50 yards, no wind, shooting from a front sandbag on a bench. Out of about 15 rounds (CMP Eley 40gr, 1090fps), only ten showed up on paper, and they were all over the place. Holding dead-on center bull, rounds went 8 inches left, 8 inches right, 4 inches high, 12 inches low. At least 4 or 5 tumbled through the paper, with elongated holes.
Any hope for this as a plinker/shooter? Get barrel relined?
At 50 yards, no wind, shooting from a front sandbag on a bench. Out of about 15 rounds (CMP Eley 40gr, 1090fps), only ten showed up on paper, and they were all over the place. Holding dead-on center bull, rounds went 8 inches left, 8 inches right, 4 inches high, 12 inches low. At least 4 or 5 tumbled through the paper, with elongated holes.
Any hope for this as a plinker/shooter? Get barrel relined?
- Junk Yard Dog
- Owner/Founder
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- Location: New York
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Never buy an antique rifle, military or otherwise, with the anticipation of getting a good shooter. Buy these for the history thay are a part of. Winchester, Remington, Henry, and others sell excellent brand new rifles that are guaranteed to shoot to your expectations or they fix the problem. With them if you got that performance you could speed dial customer service. I have bought hundreds of military surplus rifles over 40 years, and never once gave a thought to how they would shoot, I rarely even looked down the bores. If they shot well, and they often did, then cool, if not I had a cabinet full of commercial sporters that shot well. I always found the history to be the coolest aspect of martial arms collecting, I can't pick one up without imagining the interesting times it's been a part of. Never reline a milsurp, first that destroys it's collector value with a permanent alteration, a huge Very Bad Thing when dealing with antiques of any kind. Second it's a waste of money when the same money could buy you something else that shoots better. Have you tried another brand of ammunition? Sounds like the barrel crown may have a wear issue.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
I have several military surplus rifles that will keyhole at 20 yards. I just don't shoot those, but I am still quite fond of them. I have other rifles and pistols that the ammo is so scarce that I have never fired them. Although I very much enjoy both, there is a difference in collecting and shooting.
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Yep, I agree, and already knew all that, thanks anyway. Good to know someone else knows as much as I do about milsurps.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:18 am Never buy an antique rifle, military or otherwise, with the anticipation of getting a good shooter. Buy these for the history thay are a part of. Winchester, Remington, Henry, and others sell excellent brand new rifles that are guaranteed to shoot to your expectations or they fix the problem. With them if you got that performance you could speed dial customer service. I have bought hundreds of military surplus rifles over 40 years, and never once gave a thought to how they would shoot, I rarely even looked down the bores. If they shot well, and they often did, then cool, if not I had a cabinet full of commercial sporters that shot well. I always found the history to be the coolest aspect of martial arms collecting, I can't pick one up without imagining the interesting times it's been a part of. Never reline a milsurp, first that destroys it's collector value with a permanent alteration, a huge Very Bad Thing when dealing with antiques of any kind. Second it's a waste of money when the same money could buy you something else that shoots better. Have you tried another brand of ammunition? Sounds like the barrel crown may have a wear issue.
Really just looking for actual facts about relining in general.
With all my other great milsurp shooters going back to as old as 1895, including some that aren't even half as good looking as the WZ-48, it would have been nice see better results with this one which is in fact the "youngest".
Won't waste my money on more ammo down that drainpipe. Crown is good.
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Totally agree, having done both for 50+ years.
And what a joy when they come together. For example, I have a beautiful 1899 Swede M96 that can get a 3-inch group at 300 yards.
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Try some different ammo with it. I went through about 10 different brands with drastically different results. Some match grade stuff would keyhole at 25 yards. Remington Thunderbolt on the other hand would produce fantastic groups even out to 50 yards. Everything else was somewhere between the two. Mine likes the cheap, crappy ammo and I'm ok with that! My friends wz.48 was pretty similar and it too liked the Thunderbolt.
Lotema
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. -- Richard Bach
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Thanks, I'll try that. Have to stop at the ammo store first, since I have only match-grade on hand.Lotema wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:45 pm Try some different ammo with it. I went through about 10 different brands with drastically different results. Some match grade stuff would keyhole at 25 yards. Remington Thunderbolt on the other hand would produce fantastic groups even out to 50 yards. Everything else was somewhere between the two. Mine likes the cheap, crappy ammo and I'm ok with that! My friends wz.48 was pretty similar and it too liked the Thunderbolt.
- Junk Yard Dog
- Owner/Founder
- Posts: 48756
- Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:54 pm
- Location: New York
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Actual facts about relining will not be provided here, this is a preservation board, we do not condone any permanent alterations of military surplus rifles, and it is a violation of the board rules to go into such topics. Drilling out a barrel and relining it is positively a permeant alteration. Yes, I do know quite a bit about martial arms, it's been a lifetime obsession. I can remember a time when I would bring something like an 1891 Argentine Mauser to the old time collectors, and be told it was just a modern rifle, how about a nice Brown Bess? They laughed when I started collecting black powder cartridge rifles, they wouldn't be laughing today if they knew what they sell for now. Have you slugged the bore? Considered reloading with some cast bullets? Cast can be more forgiving of a worn bore, and even a worn crown. There are alternatives.alamo308 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:57 amYep, I agree, and already knew all that, thanks anyway. Good to know someone else knows as much as I do about milsurps.Junk Yard Dog wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:18 am Never buy an antique rifle, military or otherwise, with the anticipation of getting a good shooter. Buy these for the history thay are a part of. Winchester, Remington, Henry, and others sell excellent brand new rifles that are guaranteed to shoot to your expectations or they fix the problem. With them if you got that performance you could speed dial customer service. I have bought hundreds of military surplus rifles over 40 years, and never once gave a thought to how they would shoot, I rarely even looked down the bores. If they shot well, and they often did, then cool, if not I had a cabinet full of commercial sporters that shot well. I always found the history to be the coolest aspect of martial arms collecting, I can't pick one up without imagining the interesting times it's been a part of. Never reline a milsurp, first that destroys it's collector value with a permanent alteration, a huge Very Bad Thing when dealing with antiques of any kind. Second it's a waste of money when the same money could buy you something else that shoots better. Have you tried another brand of ammunition? Sounds like the barrel crown may have a wear issue.
Really just looking for actual facts about relining in general.
With all my other great milsurp shooters going back to as old as 1895, including some that aren't even half as good looking as the WZ-48, it would have been nice see better results with this one which is in fact the "youngest".
Won't waste my money on more ammo down that drainpipe. Crown is good.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
- steelbuttplate
- Posts: 3938
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:24 pm
- Location: Foxhole in the Smoky Mtns. N.C.
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Have you checked the action screws to see if the're tight. Is the rear sight staying locked on to the range setting ?
" There are two kinds of people, the good people and the ones that aggravate the hell out of the good people"
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
Sold it. Not sorry to see it go.
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
I just wonder about these WZ-48's. I wonder if the projectile size is different between when they built these rifles and our current .22LR's... I suppose that I would have tried slugging the barrel to confirm that the modern ammo is right for the bore if I was truly interested in shooting it. Just a thought. I see that you sold it I kept mine for about six years and never fired it. Then, I sold it as well.
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
My WZ48 is pristine condition and is terribly ammo picky. It does best with subsonic or standard velocity CCI, the faster the FPS the worse it gets.
Re: WZ-48: Great Looker, Terrible Shooter!
looking for extractor for wz48 ..1949 archer..