2 roll stamped on 1941 SAKO M39 barrel

[Finn39]

I'm going to revisit a sporadic topic regarding the meaning of a "2" stamped on a Finnish barrel. I have read the few postings I can find and there doesn't seem to be a concensus, though the previously accepted opinion seemed to be that it indicated an inferior grade/accuracy (where THAT originated...?). Is anyone aware of any new info that might shed additional light on this?

[qz2026]

I don't know about that... I had an M-39 with this stamping on the shank and on the butt stock. Didn't seem inferior to me. And, really, it's hard for me to believe that the Finns would label a rifle inferior yet still issue it...

[ssg_lord]

There are a number of threads over on Gunboards about the 2 marked Sako M39's and M28/30's, I keep track because I have one of each. Basically, from observed serial numbers the M28/30's fall into single blocks of 1500 rifles made in 1937, 1938,1939 and 1940, one of the years might be larger if I'm recalling correctly. The M39's fall into a single 2000 rifle block in 1941 between serial 212000 and 214000. I suspect that the 2 has something to do with the initial production. Perhaps Sako maintained a second production site or production line, especially since the 2 was roll stamped onto the barrel at the same time as the Sako markings, not something you'd do with a QA barrel marking I'd imagine and why retain whole blocks of "second rate" barrel's to begin with? With more Finnish archives being opened all the time hopefully a definite answer will surface.

[Finn39]

Thanks for the responses gents. I find it hard to believe that this marking would indicate something known to be substandard at production but assembled and issued anyways, and restricted to a specific lot of serials in separate runs for different models. I am surprised at the previous older definitive statements made supporting a lesser grade designation without any apparent contemporary information to back up these statements. I personally look at it as a form of rarity within a group that is already a limited production, albeit Finnish "Frankenrifles".

[Finn39]

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[Srupidhaircuts]

What a beautiful piece.

[Finn39]

Thanks...not the prized "flame" birch but I really liked the unique "leopard" look on this stock. Really good 95% bluing. Crisp SAKO wheel the "2" and double SA stamp. It's built on a 1905 Izhevsk receiver. Bore is a little pitted but lands and grooves still in pretty good shape and I've shot 10 rounds at 50 yards from elbow rest with 185 gr PPU 54r. 2 and 2.5" groups just plinking on a 6 o'clock hold not trying too hard. Just getting the feel of her. Pretty sure she shoots much better than I can.

[Finn39]

Recently picked up a Civil Guard Tikka M28, likely SA refurbished piece in a 28/30 stock. Bore is like new. No "D" or SA stamp and a SAKO wheel on the buttstock. Single lined out SY number and scrubbed bolt (assuming of original SY numbers as rear of cocking piece/safety is also scrubbed)with matching 4 digits to barrel on knob. Found a few rounds of Lapua 53r (.308) 185gr sp to try 'er out (not cheap). Probably have to start hand loading if I want to shoot it with any frequency. Can still find 53r brass and D46 bullets.

[ffuries]

I'm going to revisit a sporadic topic regarding the meaning of a "2" stamped on a Finnish barrel. I have read the few postings I can find and there doesn't seem to be a concensus, though the previously accepted opinion seemed to be that it indicated an inferior grade/accuracy (where THAT originated...?). Is anyone aware of any new info that might shed additional light on this?

There is mention on the 7.62x54r.net site of the 2 meaning second grade accuracy. Here's a screen shot of the mention from the below link aka the Finnish link of the site. Now as to where that information came from is beyond me. Might want to reach out to Mangrove, he's the Finnish expert on here and on Gunboards.

Finnish markings link:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks02.htm

Mangrove's profile link:

https://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/ ... ile&u=9397

[Finn39]

I've seen the mentions regarding "2nd grade" and as you stated, there's no sourcing for it. While it's a possible answer, two things stand out:

It's roll stamped at production
It occurs in specific serial blocks

Both would tend to indicate it denotes something other than post production tested accuracy.

But...I assume the categorical statement came from SOMEWHERE, be nice to know what that source was. Either way, they were assembled and shoot pretty well to all accounts and from a collecting viewpoint, they're fewer in number as a subset of the 39s. We need a Finnish compatriot to go digging a little deeper in the records

[Darryl]

There is so much crap on these rifles out on the internet.
Things that have been disproved and the real "truth" has been found after they made those assumptions.
Just because someone said it or, made a guess at it doesn't make it fact.

Time seems to make some statements "fact". That's not how it works.
The crap never gets removed from the internet. That doesn't make it fact, just old crap.

Darryl

[Tula44]

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That is one beautiful rifle!

[Mangrove]

I'm going to revisit a sporadic topic regarding the meaning of a "2" stamped on a Finnish barrel.

I suspect that the 2 has something to do with the initial production. Perhaps Sako maintained a second production site or production line, especially since the 2 was roll stamped onto the barrel at the same time as the Sako markings, not something you'd do with a QA barrel marking I'd imagine and why retain whole blocks of "second rate" barrel's to begin with?

There's nothing on the Finnish m/28-30 or m/39 rifle contracts to explain the "2" marking. The Civil Guard already had quality control markings in place, the "stars" or "crosses" and the initials of the inspector. Some Civil Guard inspection reports might suggest the "2" marked m/28-30 rifles should have a number (from 1 onwards) along with one or two "S" markings on the underside of the barrel.

Could someone confirm this, especially if you have a 1937 m/28-30 with "2".

[Finn39]

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[Finn39]

Crap...double tap, sorry folks.

[Finn39]

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Here's the other SA M39 "warhorse". This one has matching bolt barrel AND floorplate.