Mossberg Shockwave & Rem. Tac-14.

[entropy]

This has been causing some buzz on another forum. Thought some of you guys might find this interesting.
Seems that if at the factory (Or on a receiver that has never had a stock attached, i.e., a receiver bought from the factory) a barrel about 14" is installed with a Raptor (or other Witness Protection-type pistol grip) grip, is, as long as the total length exceeds 26", a "firearm" as defined by the ATF, and not subject to an SBS or AOW tax stamp, nor requires a Form 4.

Mossberg and Remington have both come out with guns of this type, based on the 590 and 870, respectively. Mossberg's is the Shockwave, Remington's is the Tac-14.

http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

https://www.remington.com/other-product ... 870-tac-14

I confess a preference for the 870 action to the 500/590, but Mossberg has one thing on theirs I would add to an 870 Tac-14: the loop under foregrip.

I know some of us on this board have an opinion on PGO (Pistol Grip Only) shotguns; not neccessarily a high opinion. Mine is this is a great gun for someone living in a tiny apartment where they can't own a handgun, or for someone walking around in big bear country. Before you write them off completely, however, see what Clint Smith has to say about the Shockwave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_sqST ... e=youtu.be

I suddenly don't envy you Canucks anymore about Bear Claws and such.....

I forgot to add; Check your local laws before ordering; several States still consider these SBS's, even if Federal Law doesn't.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Pistol grip shotguns are manageable if you put in the time to practice with them. My own has an 18.5" barrel, Mossy 500 I have had since the early 80's. I find the barrel length good as is, any shorter and you are dealing with seriously increased muzzle blast from full house loads, possibly reduced mag tube capacity as well. I shoot it from the hip right handed standing sideways with the gun held tight to my body . I routinely walk cardboard box's up and down my range, something you can do on a private range by yourself. The people who bitch about short barrel pistol grip shotguns are likely not putting in the time to properly master them and also expecting them to be more than what they are. They aren't deer sluggers or bird guns, they are last ditch firearms you grab in the most severe need. You keep them when you have a need to keep more than a pistol at hand for your protection but you don't have the space to conceal or maneuver a full size weapon. I have one right here under the counter , I will take it out and shoot a pic. Just another tool, and like any tool you should use it for it's proper purpose, but then some people still use screwdrivers as pry bars or chisels, ratchets as hammers and so on.

[SA1911a1]

What ever floats your boat.

I have an 18 1/2 in barreled pump shotgun, I tried a pistol grip on it with a pistol grip fore end piece, but went back to the full-size stock and standard fore end. Since I don't expect to be defending myself in a phone booth, the extra length to me is a plus.

I call it a gimmic gun, intended to bring out the "gangster" (as opposed to gangsta) in all of us. as I do not believe that it is an security improvement over more traditional shotguns. That said, it might still be fun, carried concealed under a trench coat while wearing a Fedora and dark sun glasses. I suspect that you would have a lot of explaining to do, or rides to the county hoosegow, when seen in public with the "firearm." (Not all law enforcement officers are savvy to the vagaries of the federal firearms laws)

I will freely admit, that I did a search for the price of both guns.

[entropy]

As I understand the ATF ruling on these, concealing them changes their status to an SBS, similar to how using the 'arm brace' on an AR or AK pistol as a stock creates an SBR. I see these as range toys, a Home Defense shotgun for someone in a really small apartment, or as bear repellent while fishing/hiking in Alaska.

Jim, the Raptor grip is a rehash of the Witness Protection Shotgun grip; if you watch the video, it's actually easy to shoot. The irony is you are in about the same position as if you were firing a stocked shotgun, just a few inches farther away from your face, to avoid busting yourself in the chops.

I'm not getting rid of my 870 or my Ithaca 37 for one of these, but if I had the $$$ to spare, I could see tossing one in behind the seats of my truck...

[Junk Yard Dog]

Nothing beats my Winchester '97 trench gun, with my Beretta A300 bringing up second place in my shotgun lineup. Either one will clear a room in a few seconds or less.

[Rongo]

This one is more to my liking for buying a serious defense shotgun.
Mossberg 590 7-Shot 18.5 Barrel
Maybe add a colapsible stock down the road.

Or maybe... Since I'm dreaming here already?

Mossberg 590A1 - 9 Shot SPX (With Bayonet Attachment)

Yes; I like Mossberg. Grew up with them & that's what I like.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Got one of the military 590's, it's kept someplace were I can find it should I need it. It's always nice to have surprises for people who deserve to have them sprung on them.

[steelbuttplate]

My mod. 12, 6 round pump machine gun, followed by my Mossburg 500 6 shooter w/ corn cob pump. Then the old Ithica deerslayer, and last, I've got an 870 40 yr old like new, like new because it's too heavy to carry around. It's a duck blind gun. I need to sell the Remington to make a space for another Mosin. Those two with a cylinder bore, you would stand a chance of missing a target at 40 yd. with buckshot.

[SA1911a1]

I call that pair of shotguns gimmic guns. With the big slowdown in gun sales, I suspect we will be seeing gun makers reaching deep into the imagination to come up with new "got to have" guns, of little practical value. I saw one, in the flesh today, and I was not impressed.

That slowdown was evident at the gun show I attended today. I wasn't even going to go, but I was nearby and decided to drop in. I would have been better off to throw the eight bucks out the car window and keep driving. The show has shrunk from one large and one small building to one small building only. The admission price has risen by a buck....Private sellers have disappeared all that is left is table after table of Bud K knives, small shops pushing black rifles and Glocks. There was a single table with a few military surplus guns; Garands, Springfields and Carbines, all overpriced and under awed. Not a Mosin in the house...

[Grinder]

Like this


I still like the compact size and mag fed of my sap 6 + its still shoulderable steady shot.

[entropy]

That's an SBS here, though. $200 Tax Stamp, Form 4, and a 6-8 month wait. WHy the spring on the outside of the mag tube? In case you forget to work the pump?

[Grinder]

Assist??? You can pull back and just let go to chamber round. Mag tube is just hollow for storage.

[Darryl]

I forgot to add; Check your local laws before ordering; several States still consider these SBS's, even if Federal Law doesn't.

Yeah, like Calif, NY, NJ. You can always count on those states to scewup the laws.

I had a pistol grip Mosberg for a while, but everytime I went out with it, I ended coming home with a swollen wrist. I guess I have weak wrists or something. Maybe I don't know how to handle them. So I traded it it for a Savage 18.5" short barrel with a standard stock. Works good for me. But everytime I grab a firearm (in the house), I grab my 9mm anyway!! Damn shotgun is "like new"!!!

Those shory shotguns look "interesting" (and cool).

D