K98 BYF 42 with Blindee Belgian proofs

[zeebill]

OK has anybody got any idea how this could happen? Has Chinese proofs also. Bore is shot out completely like many Chinese rifles. The Belgian proofs are very similar to the proofs on a Mosin conversion to 8mm. They are on the barrel along the side above the wood line, I will try and get some pics in the next week or so. Bill

[capt14k]

Oberndorf used FN subcontracted parts. Probably an FN made barrel. Chinese markings maybe from it being given post war to Chiang Kai-Shek? Are the Nazi waffenampt firing proofs on the receiver?

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[zeebill]

Have to check later today. Bill

[zeebill]

Finally got time to look closer at this piece! Busy time and under the weather a bit. The Belgian proofs are down the left hand side of the rifle on the barrel and continue onto the receiver. There is a waffen with 735 over the receiver byf markings. The bolt with a bent handle is not matching with 7070 and something that looks like a lopsided heart below it on the bolt handle. The serial on the receiver side is 353x with a eagle next to it and what looks like maybe a k. The mag housing has a matching number to the receiver while the cover plate has 791 on it. There are 2 screws with typical 2 capture screws on the mag housing. The laminated stock has Chinese markings on right side of butt stock with some flecks of red paint on left side of butt stock. It has a cupped butt plate and the receiver has a typical Mod. 98 on it. The front 2 bands are stamped matching to the receivers 353x number. Bore is typical non-existent Chinese taken care of? I have not had time to tear it down and check the rest of it as we have a Morgantown Gun Show this weekend. See you there! Bill

[Junk Yard Dog]

I hate to give opinions on Mauser markings anymore since I discovered how many fake stamps there are out there and how good they reproduce the various markings. These days with any Mauser that has out of the ordinary markings provenance becomes everything. A picture of your uncle Charlie posing with the rifle in 1945, or some other detailed paper trail or family ownership history that you can personally verify. People suck, all the scumbags who fake markings for a quick buck have ruined the fun for everyone. I bought my bringhome K98k 32 years ago, it's provenance is rock solid as I bought it from the son of the man who brought it home from the war and I had known the rifle for many years before I got hold of it. Today I would not get involved in collecting K98's unless they were dirt cheap, and they ain't. Every shithead with a pile of stamps and a hammer pouring over the Mauser books looking to place "cool" stamps right were they "should" be, I would like to take that hammer and forcibly insert it were only his proctologist would see it. I hope the stamps on yours are all legit, but you know they way things are now, and have been for the last 20 or so years now in that collector corner.

[capt14k]

I hate to give opinions on Mauser markings anymore since I discovered how many fake stamps there are out there and how good they reproduce the various markings. These days with any Mauser that has out of the ordinary markings provenance becomes everything. A picture of your uncle Charlie posing with the rifle in 1945, or some other detailed paper trail or family ownership history that you can personally verify. People suck, all the scumbags who fake markings for a quick buck have ruined the fun for everyone. I bought my bringhome K98k 32 years ago, it's provenance is rock solid as I bought it from the son of the man who brought it home from the war and I had known the rifle for many years before I got hold of it. Today I would not get involved in collecting K98's unless they were dirt cheap, and they ain't. Every shithead with a pile of stamps and a hammer pouring over the Mauser books looking to place "cool" stamps right were they "should" be, I would like to take that hammer and forcibly insert it were only his proctologist would see it. I hope the stamps on yours are all legit, but you know they way things are now, and have been for the last 20 or so years now in that collector corner.

Your right JYD. A well known "collectors" forum just allowed the listing and sale of an entire set of reproduction German Stamps. Caused quite a stir.

Bill I look forward to pics.

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[zeebill]

Tore it apart at the gun show this AM and it was filthy under the wood with some corrosion too. I doubt this was a bogus stamping as it was in an attic since the Century buy date of 2007 or 8 as the tag was too worn to be sure. Under the wood showed me nothing of interest other than a cruddy filthy non matching hand guard and stock numbers. Laminated stock seems to be very heavy for some unknown reason? I did not attempt to remove the cupped butt plate as the dirt had the screw slots very hard to get a hold of with my driver set and I didn't have any carb pics to clean them. Cleaned up fair and is a very dark wood rifle with all the apparent Chinese usage. Bolt was actually fairly clean inside and works smoothly now. One collector at the show opinioned it was likely a capture late in the war and was redone in Belgium and sent on for use by friendlies in China. That is about the most logical explanation I can find but who knows. I am really open to opinions as I have never see that BBLINDEE stamp on anything on than a 8MM converted Mosin.
JYD I know about the plethora of fake stamps on German rifles but if you are at all familiar with the Belgian proof stampings you would know they are very small and in a line about 1 and 1/2 inches long going from barrel to receiver and it would be very hard to duplicate. These stampings are very concise and complicated and small. I don't think they can be duplicated frankly like many shorter and less concise stamps can be so I have no doubts about their legitimacy.
I just would love to know if these marks appear on anything else? They are different from the Belgian Liege proofs that appear on some Finnish B barreled rifles. Pictures will take awhile as we are pushing through gunshows every weekend here for a bit and I have no time trying to keep up with requests and repair and finishing what I have promised. Oh then there is that holiday with the tree and the fat guy to consider too. Plus my Cardio guy decided I need more new meds and he tried to slow my heart to almost stopping last week. Life is fun but a struggle at times it seems? Cheers I am falling asleep! Night All! Bill

[mwt]

Another possibility- the Chinese purchased both FN 1935 rifles and obtained K98k rifles. A rebuild with mixing of parts is a possibility.


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[zeebill]

Well the plot thickens. There were several r like scrip markings on the rifle which were very hard to see and above the waffenant on the barrel band and along the left woodline on the barrel. These were ID'd later after sold as possible concentration camp manufactured markings. They were very faint and hard to note and covered with years of corrosion and rust. The rifle being non-matching and in awful poor shape from Chinese use with Chinese markings present was sold and I do not know whether we did well for the widow or not. Any word on estimation of value for this rifle in retrospect would be appreciated. I can find no real equals or similar rifles with value or sale prices on them so I just don't know whether we made a big mistake or not. Bill

[zeebill]

Concentration camp markings were supposedly only connected with BNZ markings so that would make the rifle not having the right code. The new owner paid a good price for the rifle so I guess that is the best we can do for the widow in the long run. I still have many questions about it and we went back through some stuff and moved some things to get them ready for sale and there was nothing there like this one so I guess it was one of a kind? As they say beauty and value are in the eye of the new owner and I hope he is satisfied and happy. Bill

[Junk Yard Dog]

Value of a rifle connected directly to the death camps? Someone walks in here with that and they pay me not to pound the living hell out of them with it. That would be well over the line on what I will tolerate, it's one thing to acquire such by accident not being knowledgeable about the markings, but another to deliberately seek out such relics of horrific human suffering unless it's a museum that specializes in that sad time period. Any one of the milsurp we own could have been used in a war crime, or a crime against humanity, but since they do not say that on the stock then we are ignorant of it and know that it is highly unlikely what we buy is such a thing. We collect things that killed people in war, one soldier against another, but the mass murder of millions of non combatant's is quite another matter. If something can be traced directly to the camps it should be relegated to a museum or destroyed, and I don't say that lightly about any piece of history. Some things that were closely and personally associated with such events should not be allowed to become talismans for sick individuals today, or infect future generations, they should be under glass. My Uncle destroyed the steel braided whip he found at Dachau, he brought it home to show people the evil he had seen, but he didn't want it touching any member of our family after he was gone. There is some history that should be remembered but never touched, never collected, never glorified in any manner.