MN M44 Bayonet Removal

[The Bolt Man]

Has anyone succeded in removing the bayonet from a model 44 carbine without ruining the rifle. My M44 bayonet is attached with a screw that is staked on the threaded end. It is so tight I am unable to get it loose. If I was to drill the screw out, can it be replaced? I am just about done free floating the barrel. There was a lot of pressure to up and to the right with the front 12" of the forend. Any help will be appreciated.

I would like to shoot this carbine without the bayonet attached to see how much affect it has on group size. I have been shooting this M44 with the bayonet extended and best cast bullet groups run in the 2-1/2" size at fifty yards. Often one out of five rounds will be high out of the group.

I fired 184 grain FMJ bullets salvaged from Yugo ammo I had purchased for the reloadable brass. 23 grains of WC 820 shot a nice 1" group at fifty yards. The velocity was 1722.6 fps.

I have two cast bullet loads that are very accurate in my 91-30's. When I manage to get all the blurr's lined up these loads will shoot 1/2" groups at fifty yards. 200 grain cast Lyman #314299 sized .314" over 11.0 grains of Unique and sparked with a Remington 9-1/2 large rifle primer. Cartridges rolled on the bench to put powder in bottom of cartridge when in the horizontal position and loaded singly in same position. Velocity runs 1230 fps to 1238 fps. 72 year old eyes are my worst enemy when shooting these old rifle open sights. It is winter here in Minnesota so fifty yards is all I can manage to clean with the tractor and bucket so I don't have to slip and slide in the snow. When the snow is gone I will try 100 yards, but I am not sure my eyes will be up to it. I plan to use a no drill and tap scope mount on a couple of the 91-30's that shoot well for 100 yard shooting, just to see what I can do with these old war horses.

The second load is 200 grain Lyman #314299 sized .314" diameter over 13.0 to 14.0 grains of surplus WC 820 and sparked with a Winchester large rifle primer. Velocities run 1256 fps to 1320 fps and extreme spreads are 20 fps to 38 fps.

When I try to push this bullet much over 1400 fps accuracy goes away.

[Jumperwire]

The M44 was sighted in with the bayonet extended. Something with the harmonics of the barrel, IIRC If you really want one w/o a bayonet, you can get a Chinese T53 for cheap. I wouldn't chance messing up a good rifle and may never bet it back together again. This will also be borderline Rules Violation since this is a preservation forum.
Personally, Sounds like an M38 would suit you great.

[The Bolt Man]

Jumperwire,

It is with preservation in mind that I want to remove the bayonet in a manner that will not damage the orignial condition of the rifle. If I can't remove the and reinstall it to a condition of "Exactly as original", I won't mess with it.

[Jumperwire]

I really don't think it will come off on it's own. Someone else may chime in about it. That's why I mentioned "border line" We've been getting a lot of that lately here. Just trying to keep it down, before it starts. No ill intent meant by it.

[Greasemonkey]

There is the slight chance of the stake marks causing the threads to pull when the screw is removed. Seen a few SKS's where the threads were damaged from the screw removal.

[desdem12]

Get a M38. Those don't take bayonets and are the same as a M44 in length and stock.

[MN Fan]

In some cases, the M38s are in a M44 stock even. Mine is. I saw the groove and at first wondered why the hell they went through all that work to add a groove that wasn't necessary. And then it dawned on me

[Junk Yard Dog]

The Soviets didn't want that bayonet coming off the rifle, it was something that would be handled only at the arsenal if repairs were needed, that's why they staked it in place. I can't think of a single way to remove that stake that would not cause damage to the mount, or the screw, it would be best to leave it in place.

[MN Fan]

Where are you at Bolt Man? You're welcome to shoot my M38 for a few weeks if you want to do some side by side comparison.

[MN Fan]

Edit: Wow, my reply ended up in the wrong thread

Moving it to the appropriate topic.

[Rongo]

As previously stated... Removing the bayonet is not recommended & can do damage if you try. Get an M38 & enjoy both.

Edit: Wow, my reply ended up in the wrong thread

Moving it to the appropriate topic.

OOPS....

[The Bolt Man]

From most of the replys, it is clear I haven't stated clearly enough the reason I would like to remove the bayonet.

First. I would like to remove ther bayonet for the purpose of testing for accuracy, how the rifle shoots that way.

Most of us are aware the point of impact changes considerably from when the bayonet is deployed to when the bayonet is folded back against the stock. My load testing has indicated a difference is the group sizes also.

This is why I would like to remove the bayonet and test the rifle for accuracy without it. At least then I would know what the accuracy potential of the rifle is and if it is best without the bayonet or best with the bayonet in one of the two positions.

Shooting a M38 would be fun, but it wouldn't answer my question of accuracy potential for this M44. Unfortunately, my M38 doesn't have a good enough bore to prove anything other than the fact it won't shoot very accurately. The bore is to worn, too frosted and too much rod wear. If I ever locate another M38 with a nice bore and reasonably priced, I will buy it and sell the one I have.

My M44 has a mint bore as does my 91-30 Izhevsk dated 1930, both barrel and receiver. The 91-30 shoots great with a couple of my cast loads. That is until my 72 year old eyes can no longer line all the blurrs up well. 1/2" five shot groups at fifty yards are the norm when I am at my best.

Before anyone blows the whistle and shouts foul, I plan to scope this rifle. I will be using one of the no drill and tap mounts so I can always go back the original. Then I can spend more time testing loads for accuracy or simply blowing the "X" ring out of the target. I would do the same with the M44, but at this point I don't think it is worth it. 2-1/2" clusters at fifty yards has been the best I could do and I know I can shoot better than that. Again, shooting without the bayonet will likey tell me if the rifle can do any better than 2-1/2" at fifty yards. I will remove the bayont if I can do so without harming the rifle, test it for accuracy, then put the bayonet back on.

Chances are the M44 will not be my first choice when I want to do some bullseye shooting. I have too many 91-30's that can do much better without any effort.

[Rongo]

[The Bolt Man]

MN Fan ,

Thanks for the offer. Shooting your M38 or any other rifle for that matter would only prove how well that rifle shoots. It is my M44 that I am testing and questioning how well it can shoot. Because bayonet deployed vs folded back against the stock changes the point of impact on the target and I found the group sizes changed some also, I want to try without the bayonet.

That is what lead me to thinking, " I have no idea how well or poorly this rifle will shoot without the bayonet. I would put my money on the rifle doing best without the bayonet. At least I would know what the full potential of accuracy this M44 actually has.

I live in southern Minnesota. This time of year it usually cold. At times it feels like I am about five miles south of the north pole. My fifty yard bench is three sides with a roof. In the cold season I can drop a piece of heavy poly across the front with shooting ports, fire up the Mister Heater and shoot in comfort when the temperature is 20 to 30 degrees and wind isn't out of the north. Wind from the north still blows in through the shooting port and my mind shifts from shooting basics to, "Darm, I am freezing and this is no longer fun."

I am still working on getting that darn screw out without ruining anything in the process. This M44 is a real nice rifle on a laminated stock and I don't want to mess it up. Soaking it with Croil now.

[SA1911a1]

I am glad I didn't know that the bayonet was not supposed to come off. I have removed the bayonets on a dozen of them for the initial cleaning. I never had any trouble with that screw, coming out or going back.