A quick primer on all matching Soviet mosin nagants

[racerguy00]

Recently there have been many posts and questions asked about "all matching" or "numbers matching" mosin nagants. This can be a confusing topic both to those new to mosins and more experienced collectors alike. Let's dig a little deeper and see if we can clear some of that up, and see if that numbers matching mosin that you recently acquired is truly an original numbers matching example or not.

First order of business is to determine what type of mosin you are dealing with. Each country that produced or used the mosin rifle used their own method for numbering the rifle and its parts. Although their particular method may be similar to the Soviet and earlier Russian method, it is the latter that were are discussing here. Their are several outstanding online resources that will help you to determine what you have, including this forum and website. The vast majority of mosins available from retailers and on the secondary market today are known a "refurbs". They are just that, rifles and carbines refurbished by the USSR and stored away for possible future use. These rifles became very plentiful in the last decade and were imported mostly from Ukraine and Russia itself. A great explination of the refurb process itself is available here: http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... index.html


Although this thread will mostly deal with these refurb rifles, the same info can be applied to other non-refurb or issued Soviet and older Russian mosins as well.

There are three basic serial number descriptions that are thrown about when discussing mosin nagants. Although they may seem self-explanitory at first, lately there has been confusion as to what the terms actually mean.

NON-MATCHING: This seems like an easy one. It is simply what you have when one or more of the numbered parts' serial numbers is different from that on the barrel. The confusion usually arises when people apply this term to mosins that have been force-matched during refurb.

FORCE-MATCHED and ARSENAL-MATCHED: As explained in the above link, during the refurb process the various parts were numbered to match the barrel's serial number. Old numbers were either voided by line-outs or removed entirely in most cases. New numbers were either re-stamped or etched on using an electro-pencil tool. The numbers applied using this process are known as EP'd numbers. Although just as correct on refurbished rifles as re-stamped numbers, they can be less aesthetically appealing to many. It is these particular rifles that are most commonly and incorrectly described as non-matching. I have seen dealers separate re-stamped refurbished rifles with no visible older numbers from EP'd rifles and/or those having line-outs and sell them as "all-matching" for a premium. It is also common to encounter sellers on the secondary market selling re-stamped "all matching" refurbs at a hefty premium believing that they are "original matching" which is incorrect.

The final term,
ALL MATCHING or TOTALLY MATCHING needs to be broken down even further. It can be used to describe both the force-matched rifles described above, or true, factory-original matching examples. Due to the huge difference in value between the two, care must be taken in clarifying which term actually applies.

ORIGINAL, TRUE, or FACTORY MATCHED: This term applies to rifles that have their original numbered parts that were present during their manufacture and assembly. Examples of these are very uncommon and usually bring a hefty premium on the market. Most are either rifles that never went through the refurbishment process after being issued, only received a light refurb, or in some cases are post-WW2 examples that saw little use.

There are a couple of ways to determine if the rifle is a true-matching example or not. Sometimes on parts re-stamped during refurb, the original number that was present was ground off. The tell-tale grind marks may still be visible. In some cases, the parts were polished after grinding so the marks have disappeared. In those cases a good indicator of force-matching could be the presence of markings older than the rifle itself or originating from a different arsenal altogether. A Remington marked bolt body on a wartime Tula is an example of this. Although it is possible that older small parts were re-used during the building of new rifles as was the case with some receivers, I don't recall having ever seen a truly matching mosin using older numbered parts. As with everything mosin though, there may be an exception floating around out there.

Another indicator may be the lack of an alpha-numeric prefix on serial numbers on a post-1937 rifle's parts. These serial number prefixes were used, again with a few exceptions, on rifles beginning in '38 and were applied to all of the numbered parts during the original manufacture. If a bolt, magazine or butt plate are lacking these prefixes when they are present on the barrel, it is a very good bet that the part was renumbered at some point.

Lastly, the most accepted and decisive way of determining the serial numbers' originality is the font of the numbers themselves. On Soviet and Russian mosins, the numbers on all of the parts matched each other EXACTLY at production. This included the font of the numbers and letters themselves. Every line, curve, and whirl on the numerals on the butt plate, bolt and magazine would be a precise match for those on the barrel. Sometimes this is not an obvious difference. Examine each number individually with its counterpart on the barrel. If there are any differences, then the part has most likely been force-matched.

[Miller Tyme]

Great post RG,

[bocephus]

Could you post any picture examples? There seems to be a population out there that thinks if it isn't lined out it's original matching.

[Darryl]

Race was asked to write this up and when I read it, I decided to go ahead and post it as is for now. It is very well written. We will be adding more to this shortly I hope. More topics with examples.

While the more advanced collectors already know these terms, this was written for the newer collectors so they can understand what is being discussed, and so we are all on the same page.

He did much better then I even hope for.

[racerguy00]

One of the earliest I've seen and my favorite example of an original matching mosin nagant belongs to forum member Martin08. It is part of the forums showcase and can be viewed here:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=11157

His fantastic photos show the exact matching font on the various numbered parts in great detail.

A quick example of a force matched but non-line out serial number is visible here in some photos from my own collection. The most obvious difference in the font of the barrel serial number and that on the bolt body is the number 1. Note the flat base on the number one on the barrel serial number. On the bolt's number, that numeral is simpler, and lacks the flat base. There are grind marks present on the bolt body under the new number, but they are not obvious at a glance.



In the following example, note the alpha-numeric prefix on the barrel's serial number. On the butt plate, the prefix is absent and the font is obviously different. This is another example of force-matching, even though there are no signs of older numbers having been present on the butt plate.

[FR0STY54R]

Excellent topic and write up.

Here is a good example of an Arsenal Matched rifle.

You will notice that the barrel serial number matches the serial number on the bolt body. However, upon much closer inspection you will notice that the two serial numbers are stamped in slightly different fonts. Namely the 2's and 4's.



A closer look. Notice the little differences in how they are stamped. The barrel serial number has a slightly more ornate font.



One of the more obvious indicators is the fact that this rifle is quite obviously Tula built. However, on the bolt body, a prominent Izhevsk arsenal stamp is found.



This rifle has very clean stampings and no obvious sign of previously removed serial numbers.

No lined out numbers on the floor plate.


Nor on the buttplate.


At first glance and to someone without sufficient knowledge of the Refurbed M91-30 rifles, it's not hard to see why this rifle would be mistaken and listed as "Original Matching". Especially if the rifle had an actual Tula built bolt body.

Here is a simpler example. Here you will notice that the "1" stamped on the barrel shank is clearly not the same font as the "1" found on the bolt body.



In this picture you may faintly notice where it looked as if the bolt was scrubbed to remove the original serial number.

[qz2026]

Good write-up RG. I think everyone can learn from this post.

[WWW]

Thank you for this excellent write up.

ORIGINAL, TRUE, or FACTORY MATCHED: This term applies to rifles that have their original numbered parts that were present during their manufacture and assembly. Examples of these are very uncommon and usually bring a hefty premium on the market.

Too bad more people don't understand that what they don't know can cost them. To some, it's just another beat up old Russian rifle, so they will start sanding, modifying, or refinishing. Sure, a lot of the time it's just a common refurb, but eventually someone will screw up a very valuable piece of history because they don't know what every single mark, or even any lack of a certain mark, means on that rifle first.

[SA1911a1]

Very nice work.

Not to be argumentative, but why would we suspect that even original matching rifles would always have the same font. Surely the same dies were not used for each process in the building of the rifle, and why would we expect that the Soviets would have made any effort for each work-station to have matching font dies?
Perhaps, I just do not understand the process of Soviet mass production of these rifles.

I think that a normal extension of the article would be to include Finn matched, and matching rifles from China or Soviet satellite countries.

[jones0430]

When they buy stamps they normally buy several complete sets. And the fonts used by decades will normally be the same. Styles are what we are looking at. The "modern" fonts are the sans-serif fonts inspires by Helvetica in the mid 20's.

Up through the 50's the fonts were more influenced by traditional fonts.

[shmlnaaa]

To add to the OP: I have indeed seen both wartime and pre-war original matching parts that were recycled older parts. They are out there. Don't be turned off by something if one part is an older one or not from the same arsenal (though most all on it should be of the correct production era and from the same arsenal). The real key is comparing the fonts to that of the barrel shank serial number. Knowing how to spot a factory original finish on a rifle also helps greatly.

When they buy stamps they normally buy several complete sets. And the fonts used by decades will normally be the same. Styles are what we are looking at. The "modern" fonts are the sans-serif fonts inspires by Helvetica in the mid 20's.

Up through the 50's the fonts were more influenced by traditional fonts.

That, or they were indeed serialized at one station after the rifle had been assembled and fitted. The rifles were serialized after being blued. From a manufacturing standpoint, this could make sense. A bolt action rifle like the Mosin is fairly simple.

I have three non-Finn'ed, non-refurbished Soviet examples I could post if you guys want.

[Gsragtop]

Great thread !!! Thanks racer for getting this started.

[etprescottazusa91]

good post

[Mercado]

Beginner here, but yes great post. Very helpful.