Talk to me about 7.62x39

Reloading and any ammunition discussions are here.
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optikalillushun
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Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by optikalillushun »

I have a small horde (north side of 1500 rounds) of 7.62x39. Its a mix of Tula, Wolf, Camo box Wolf and M67. What is the general opinion on these? Any issues with any? I've shot the Tula strickly through my SKS and WASR without a hitch. Also seen there is FMJ (which is the majority of my stock), SP (soft point) and HP (hollow point). I know what the FMJ and HP would be used for but what about the SP?

Also, if i would buy some brass case'd 7.62x39 how easily is it to reload? Just thinking for future reference? I seen something in the SK/SKS book i have about the bullet being a .311 and the standard is .308. Does that make a difference? Or is there specific bullets? Also it said there is no case easily adapatable to make 7.62x39 (how one would do that is beyond me). So would it be wise to buy a few boxes of say Winchester whitebox or Remington brass case to keep for reloading?

Oh and the Tula smells awsome when fired, kind of like sweaty socks and rotten eggs :lol: But it goes bang and thats all i care about.
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mogunner
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by mogunner »

Soft point is preferred for hunting over the HP, the hollow point tends to fragment and leave lots of little pieces scattered throughout whatever you shot, the soft point expands but tends to stay in one LARGE piece.

Can't help you on reloading info.

I thought that the Tula smelled more like cat urine on a hotplate...
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desdem12
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by desdem12 »

Reloading this round is easy. Finding the cases after is way harder. :roll: :lol: I have a few hundred loaded and they work great. :thumbsup:
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by Junk Yard Dog »

Well, the cat never pissed on a hotplate around here :)
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
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Knight44
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by Knight44 »

you are correct if you are loading this for the SKS or AK you will need to use the .311 dia. bullets as the standard us .308 dia. will be to loose in the barrel and accuracy will be bad. This round is kind of like the 7.62x54r until prices on the Russian stuff goes up it normaly cost more to reload it than you can buy it for. the only up side is you can get more specialized loads when you do it your self.
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desdem12
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by desdem12 »

Hornady makes bullets for this caliber i think. I found brass at sportsmans wharehouse and it was reasonable then so i have enough. @Walmart sells it in the 40 rd box for not too much too so got some there. Haven't shot any yet though. :D
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by res45 »

I've reloaded the 7.62 x 39 cartridge for about 10 years or so now. Although steel case ammo is relatively cheap compared to reloading your own in some cases but not all,if you look around at the moment you will be lucky to find any x39 ammo of any type or components to reload it and most likely thats going to continue for awhile.

This is not the first time shortages have happened and it probably want be the last so if you haven't gotten ahead of the curve by either stocking up on steel or brass case commercial ammo or reloading components to load your own you might just have to play a waiting game till things calm down. Thats no necessarily a bad thing as it will give you time to put things together.

Lets start with the ammo you have on hand. 1500 rds. isn't bad thats about the amount I keep in my rainy day stash that doesn't get shot most of it is either Golden Tiger FMJ or Bear HP and SP with a few boxes of steel case Chinese and some Yugo M67 throw into the mix for old time sake. It's what shoot the most accurately that I found out testing in my Chinese and Yugo SKS. Wolf is an ammo I just don't use anymore due to some issues it had several years ago with underpowered loads and pierced primers,but I haven't heard of any issues in a few years now. Wolf is just an importer and makes no ammo of there own so it could happen with any ammo really but I don't have to buy it so I don't,that just a personal preference.

As far as the different bullet designs found in Russian X39 ammo FMJ is the most reliably as far as feed and function,the HP and SP bullets are mainly used for hunting purposes if your stuck with steel case ammo but they work just fine for any other use as well if they feed through your rifle without any problems. The thing about the Russian HP and SP bullets is that they for the most part use the same steel jacket bullet as the FMJ so expansion is pretty much based on the laws of physics as to how they preform on your intended target,range,muzzle velocity and what they hit at time of impact as to if they preform as intended,n some cases they don't expand at all and act just like an FMJ.

Some of the Russian HP ammo is reported to be loaded with the 8M3 effect HP that is suppose to expand/fragment more readily but I never got into looking just for that,it still make a hole. The M67 Yugo ammo you have is good ammo,it was made by both Prvi Partizan and Igman ammo plants in the former Yugoslavia. Although they changed powder types and pressure loading of the ammo several time all M67 ammo used the same bullet with a all copper jacket lead core bullet that was designed to deform and tumble faster and produce a much wider stretch cavity in tissue than all the other x39 FMJ offerings,it's also corrosive primed so clean your rifle as soon as possible after shooting it or you will end up with a rust bucket especially in climates where the humidity is high and the corrosive salts deposited on metal surfaces by the prime compound can attract moisture.

As far as commercial boxer primed brass case ammo for reloading goes Remington,Federal,American Eagle,Winchester,Sellier & Bellot,PMC,Fiocchi,MFS and Prvi Partizan all make it. The Prvi and S & B are generally going to be the cheapest at around $10 per 20 rds. while Rem.Fed and Win. are generally the highest priced with everything else in between. I've load all there brass with the exception of the Federal and AE and it's done fine,I'm kinda partial to the foreign brass as it tends to be a little thicker. My SKS rifle don't abuse the brass so I gotten many loading so far and have yet to trash a case. Rem. Fed. Win. Prvi. and Lapua brass for the X39 is also available when you can find it in factory new brass.

For bullets you have lots of options to choose from just about ever major bullet mfg. make a .310 or .311 dia. bullet in the 123 to 150 gr. weight range that will work in the 7.62 x 39. Either dia. will work but one may shoot more accurately that the other, the only way to find that out is through testing. Both my SKS rifle have .312" dia. groove bore but they shoot the .310" dia. bullets best with the .311" dia. bullets a close second regardless of weight. I load all the Hornady 123 gr. FMJ,SP and V-MAX bullets and you can use the same load data for all three. I also shoot the Speer HotCor and Prvi 150 gr. .311" SP bullet as well as a couple surplus pull bullets in 140+ and 180+ gr. FMJ. Ans since I cast bullets for all my handguns and rifles I shoot cast loads in my SKS rifle as well. My two bullets of choice are the Lee 32 cal. .314" dia. 90 gr. tumble lube SWC,it's cast from pure lead or a 3:1 Lead/wheel weight alloy tumble lubed once run through a Lee .314 push through sizer and tumble lubed again before loading. I shoot this bullet sub-sonic at around 900+ fps.using 3.0 grs. of Alliant Bullseye no filler need,it want cycle the action in a semi but it a excellent plinker/pest/small game load and you can work the action like a bolt gun and not loose your brass.
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My other cast load I use is the Lee tumble lube .312" 160 gr. gas check RN,the bullet drops from my mold at .314" which is exactly the dia. I need with a cast bullet in a .312 groove bore,your results may vary due to manufacturing tolerances as to the dia. of the bullet Lee molds tend to either drop as specified or no more than .003" larger all my Lee molds drop bullet about .002" larger than the spec on the box.. Generally .001" to .002" larger than the groove dia. of you bore is best I like it to be the fattest I can chamber easily. Lee make two molds specifically for the 7.62 x 39 one is the TL version and the other uses the standard grease grooves,both are gas check designs for higher velocity loads,NOE and Accurate Molds and a few other also make a mold that is designed for the 7.62 x 39 cartridge there a bit more expensive than the Lee molds but are better quality but honestly I can't complain about my X39 Lee mold it made great accurate bullets for the past five years.

Anyways with this particular 160 gr. cast bullet I shoot two loads using Alliant 2400 it's a load developed by C.E. Harris you start with a Min. of 11.0 grs. and increase it by one half grain until you get reliable cycling or you reach a Max. load of 15.0 grs. In my Chinese it take 12.5 grs. to accomplish that MV is 1450+ fps. on the chrono and you can get one ragged hole at 50 yds. with the iron on a pretty regular basis. My Yugo M59/66A1 is a bit more picky as the gas system which is a bit more open than the Chinese SKS due to the gas valve assembly likes the Max. load of 15.0 grs. but on a rare occasion it want cycle even with the Max. load. For SKS and AK rifle that the Max. load of 2400 want cycle with the Lee cast bullet loads I've pretty much found that a starting load of 18.0 grs. of Alliant Reloader #7 works ever time. The Max. load of 2400 or the starter load of Reloader #7 will get you close to 2K fps. MV The 2400 loads tend to dump the brass within 5' or less of your shooting position lesser amount of 2400 will dump it closer,the Reloader #7 loads tends to throw the brass out past about 10' or more.
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For standard rifle powders using J bullets,powders like AA-1680,Reloader #7 and IMR or H-4198 are all good and very accurate with bullet in the 123 to 150 gr. range,there are several others like IMR-4227 and H-335 that work but they tend to either produce lower velocity with the same ammo or use much more powder to get the same results as the first three I mentioned I use Reloader # 7 because it cheaper and readily available and the IMR or H-4198 as a backup powder nobody carries the AA-1680 around here anymore. The Reloader #7 is nice because it works with all weights of J bullets and with the heavier cast loads.

For primers there are only three that I trust to use in my SKS rifle that have the free floating firing pin those are the CCI #34 LR Mil-Spec primer Wolf/Tula LR or LRM and WLR never had a slamfire using these primers as long as you seat the fully in the primer pocket and don't drop the bolt on a rd. loaded in the chamber instead of letting it be stripped from the magazine.
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optikalillushun
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by optikalillushun »

Supurb write up, thank u!
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by Junk Yard Dog »

:thumbsup:
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entropy
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by entropy »

Very informative post, res45! :D I started loading 7.62x39 a while back when we were having a shoot at DEDCAT's Shooting Emporium™, ran out of x39, and made a run up to Russell's Sport & Bike. He had about 400 rounds of Lapua sitting there, (had been for a while, IIRC) for $3.50 a box. This was when Wolf was $1.99 a box at Fleet Farm. We grabbed it all, between the 3 of us;DEDCAT, a freind of his- Jeff, and I, and I hunted down every empty that the AK's and SKS's attempted to launch into orbit. Got most of them. I added them to the @100 or so I'd scavenged at the range over the years, and decided it was time to start reloading 7.62x39! :lol: I ordered a set of Lee dies from Midway, looked up some loading data from the various powder Mfr. sites, the SKS forum, and I think I even asked about it here.

I settled on 30 grains of BL-C(2) or 26 grains of IMR 3031, both topped by the 125 gr. Remington .310 SP or FMJ. Primer is the CCI #34 Mil-Spec. Accuracy is adequate, given they were tested out of a Yugo SKS. (2.5" @ 50 yds.) Minute of deer. (Or goblin, as Cooper was so fond of saying.) Wish I had a CZ 552 in 7.62x39 to fine tune some loads with. (Heck, wish I had the Yugo SKS back.... :oops: )

I did manage to restrain myself and not fire off all of my Lapua rounds; I have @100 left, and they are not going anywhere for a while.
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res45
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by res45 »

Here are a couple targets I shot with my final load workups. Most were shot at 50 yds. in the backyard range with my Yugo as I had it a couple years before I picked up my Chinese. All but the 75 yd. group was fired with iron sights. If you notice in just about ever group but not all one shot is always a flyer,this is always the first hand chambered rd. for some reason in my rifles it always does this but it's not off enough to matter.

Image Image Image Image Image

Any of you ever seen or shot any of the E. German 7.62 x 39 practice ammo I have about 100 rds. in 10 rd. blister packs and a couple stripper clips loaded up. It's pretty accurate stuff out to 50/75 yds.velocity drops off pretty quick though after that. It's loaded if I remember right a 63 gr. steel jacket plastic core bullet. The bullet on the right was dug out of my wet pack media at around 14" deep and the rd. had turned sideways.
Image
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optikalillushun
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by optikalillushun »

So when a bullet says 123 gr its the weight of the actual bullet, not the amount of powder? I never knew that. So it would be safe to say (if i am right) that a heaver bullet will travel slower but have a bigger impact while a lighter bullet will have more velocity but not make as big of an impact? Most of what i have is Tula 122 gr FMJ, the rest is M67 and Wolf/WPA/Camo box 123 or 124 gr HP.

Went to my local Wal-mart to see what kind of brass ammo they had, Rem and Win white box but way to expensive to buy for me at the moment. I talked to the lady that runs the sporting goods section and she said they are not stocking Tulammo anymore...hopefully she was just misinformed or this is a temporary supply issue because at 4.97 (plus 6% tax) it was the best deal locally. Dunhams sometimes runs the Wolf/WPA/Camo box @ 5.49 plus tax so its not to far off. I crunched some numbers and at the current prices as of today (1/4/2013) it was roughly 26c/round which was a bargin but that havent had any in stock since before christmas when i bought every box from three different stores...
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by Dragunov sniper 777 »

i have loved this round since i first shot it , i love it so much i want a savage bolt gun in 7.62x39 to play with ....every time i take the yugo's or the mini 30 to the range people walk up and comment thats not a 223 what is it ..lol :thumbsup: ..

oh but my fav load is a hornady SST 123 0ver a full case of H335...
i am so poor i can only afford mustard and biscuits three times a week ..
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by Junk Yard Dog »

I should have bought a shitload more when it was seventy five per thousand.
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mrb7
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by mrb7 »

SGAmmo has 1K round cases of Tula hollow point in stock as of this morning (Jan 7,2013). Limit one case per person, and at this moment over 300 cases in stock. I've already ordered mine.
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optikalillushun
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by optikalillushun »

Thanks, i wish i had the extra cash but i dont so i cant. I did pick up 6 boxes of Wolf at Dunhams (last 6 left).
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by Longcolt44 »

It looks to be gone already.
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by mrb7 »

Longcolt44 wrote:It looks to be gone already.

My browser says just over 200 still in stock. But maybe it's cached behind some queue that I can't ping through.

Still that's well over a hundred cases sold this morning, and the site is enforcing a one case per order limit.
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by BubbaDX »

I see 157 cases left and the price is not that bad. It's up a little but he's not price gouging like a lot of other dealers. SG and Copes are at the top of my ammo supplier list.
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Re: Talk to me about 7.62x39

Post by Rongo »

Knight44 wrote:you are correct if you are loading this for the SKS or AK you will need to use the .311 dia. bullets as the standard us .308 dia. will be to loose in the barrel and accuracy will be bad. This round is kind of like the 7.62x54r until prices on the Russian stuff goes up it normaly cost more to reload it than you can buy it for. the only up side is you can get more specialized loads when you do it your self.
That's just it. Why reload when you can get a box of 20 for under $5??? And then there's chasing brass after you shoot it.... Dang SKS & AK toss it everywhere! :shock:
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