The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Guys,

For those of you who have a PU sniper, what kind of accuracy are you achieving? What is a realistic expectation of accuracy from an old PU that is in good shape, assuming good ammunition? I have read that good PU snipers rifles could average 1.5 MOA with some substantially better than that. What have you guys experienced?

GS

I have gotten 2 MOA out of at least one refurb 91/30, but I do not shoot the Hungarian pu. Some folks here should know, but I would not expect Remington 700 accuracy from the run of the mill original PU, and even less from the cobbled together ones.

I too have wondered about the PU limits. I have heard that the 91/30 was considered the best sniper rifle fielded in WW2 even the firearms curator at the Wild Bill museum said it. now, with my experience with quite a few Mosin Nagants and the thick hairs on the PU, I would most likely get M.O.C.( minute of cow) at 100 yards.

Well, FWIW, they definitely shot MON (Minute of NAZI).

GS

I think some of these guys are getting 1.5 or at least 2" 5 shot groups. Some maybe better. If i could get 2" i would consider that very good.

Eddystone06 wrote:I too have wondered about the PU limits. I have heard that the 91/30 was considered the best sniper rifle fielded in WW2 even the firearms curator at the Wild Bill museum said it. now, with my experience with quite a few Mosin Nagants and the thick hairs on the PU, I would most likely get M.O.C.( minute of cow) at 100 yards.

The most successful sniper in history used a Mosin (albiet a Finn one), but he also didn't have the handicap of a scope. Musta had eagle eyes.

He was a farmer who was really pissed off with being called away from his crops.

I just shot my M39 and got 1 1/4 " out of it and 1 1/2 out of my 91/30 both at 100 yards using surplus ammo. I would hope you could get the same out of a sniper rifle. Check my targets.

Very few rifles of any kind will give you the accuracy of a well tuned M39, that sort of performance I came to expect with my M39's and none of them disappointed me.

Sirex wrote:

Eddystone06 wrote:I too have wondered about the PU limits. I have heard that the 91/30 was considered the best sniper rifle fielded in WW2 even the firearms curator at the Wild Bill museum said it. now, with my experience with quite a few Mosin Nagants and the thick hairs on the PU, I would most likely get M.O.C.( minute of cow) at 100 yards.

The most successful sniper in history used a Mosin (albiet a Finn one), but he also didn't have the handicap of a scope. Musta had eagle eyes.

A man is also a big target.

I have a well tuned Sako M39 and it is by far the most accurate Mosin on my ceiling,1" at 100 yards is common place, Mickey mouse is more like it!

Genetically Swiss wrote:Guys,

For those of you who have a PU sniper, what kind of accuracy are you achieving? What is a realistic expectation of accuracy from an old PU that is in good shape, assuming good ammunition? I have read that good PU snipers rifles could average 1.5 MOA with some substantially better than that. What have you guys experienced?

GS

I revieved my Russian Sniper 91/30 today from Classic Arms.

It took three days to get it to Missouri.

The scope was not mounted on the rifle. I mounted it, cleaned the bore down to metal and went off to the range.

The gun shot dead center at 100 yards without adjustment and about 1 foot high. It appears the rifle had been sighted in with the scope as the windage was at 0. So I didn't have to do anything to accurize it. I also noticed it had the concentric circles on the barrel indicating passed for accuracy.

The scope is marked "1941" the rifle is a high wall, 1944 Izhevsk. The rifle s/n is TK1791, scope s/n 40262 with the same number stamped on the barrel (There is another number lined out just below it just above the wood. The scope and mount appear matched with a electric pencil mark on it that doesn't match any number on the gun.

All of the numbers match on the rifle. TK1791.

The bore was mirror shiny with great lands anb grooves.

The trigger had some uptake, but then a crisp possibly 4 pound release.

The bolt was smooth as silk for a mosin!

It appears none of the wood was separated from the stock since the front and rear bands were stuck in the varnish looking as though they had been varnished over.

She shot very consistently with the wolf ammo.

The cut outs for the scope mount are rough.

I've been following this thread since the OP and thought from time to time about just what sort of accuracy was required from these rifles. I would think that during the battle of Stalingrad most shots would be close range when compared to the long ranges of modern mountain and desert warfare. The battle was from block to block, building to building and room to room. I have not read anything about average yardage but I would think the majority of shots would be 100 to maybe 300 yards. At these ranges a selected 91/30 with a 4x scope should be able to hit a gallon paint bucket pretty consistantly. Where the value of the scope comes in is selecting targets of high value, being able to select an officer over the enlisted soldier.

Being able to field huge numbers of these rifles into battle certainly helps in recognizing its historic value in the victory over Germany. You might even think about it by comparing numbers versus accuracy. For $8000.00 you could have one soldier in the field with an Accuracy International AW in .338 Lapmag capable of shooting 1/2 MOA or 10 troops equiped with RGUN 91/30 Mosin Nagant PU scoped sniper rifles shooting 2 or 3 MOA. Me? I would choose numbers over tight groups.

Just my ponderings, others will vary.

'drif

desert drifter wrote:I've been following this thread since the OP and thought from time to time about just what sort of accuracy was required from these rifles. I would think that during the battle of Stalingrad most shots would be close range when compared to the long ranges of modern mountain and desert warfare. The battle was from block to block, building to building and room to room. I have not read anything about average yardage but I would think the majority of shots would be 100 to maybe 300 yards. At these ranges a selected 91/30 with a 4x scope should be able to hit a gallon paint bucket pretty consistantly. Where the value of the scope comes in is selecting targets of high value, being able to select an officer over the enlisted soldier.

Being able to field huge numbers of these rifles into battle certainly helps in recognizing its historic value in the victory over Germany. You might even think about it by comparing numbers versus accuracy. For $8000.00 you could have one soldier in the field with an Accuracy International AW in .338 Lapmag capable of shooting 1/2 MOA or 10 troops equiped with RGUN 91/30 Mosin Nagant PU scoped sniper rifles shooting 2 or 3 MOA. Me? I would choose numbers over tight groups.

Just my ponderings, others will vary.

'drif

+1. Agreed


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These are not just your ponderings. This is the dilema that finland faced and they chose the opposite as you. The reason was of course they did not have the men to do it the other way but the history of this affair has a clear (I guess) winner, Finland. The individual with a superior rifle and of perhaps better skills won out over the numbers.

desdem12 wrote:These are not just your ponderings. This is the dilema that finland faced and they chose the opposite as you. The reason was of course they did not have the men to do it the other way but the history of this affair has a clear (I guess) winner, Finland. The individual with a superior rifle and of perhaps better skills won out over the numbers.

I think there is another very important variable in addition to the fact that Finland lacked the number of troops.

Finland was an army defending its homeland. While I have never talked to any of the folks I worked with from Finland about their military, I have had some long discussions with a couple of Swiss fellows about their army. And the Swiss psyche is that they absolutely have the strongest army in the world because it is men defending their homes. Period; end of the discussion. They'll all fight to the absolute bitter end with sling shots and rocks if necessary. No invading army will ever take Switzerland intact.

I honestly think an oppressor force would have to kill every one of them, or they would patiently wait to cut the throats of the oppressors at the first opportunity. For such a friendly peace loving place they mean business. (You know, like South Carolina or Mississippi; the two places I've spent most of my adult life.)

Now, I don't know that the Finns had that attitude, but I do know that they were not the territorial aggressors looking for loot from others. They were the defenders like the Russians at Stalingrad.

Most of the Soviet defenders at Stalingrad were not from Stalingrad, they were from all over Russia and motivated by fear mostly, remember the NKVD waited with blocking units right behind the front lines to kill any man who retreated.

Junk Yard Dog wrote:Very few rifles of any kind will give you the accuracy of a well tuned M39, that sort of performance I came to expect with my M39's and none of them disappointed me.

I have gotten my best accuracy out of (in order): M1, FR8, M39.

Ah yes to be in the Russian military...go forward get shot......retreat get shot...No winners there...

Sometimes I miss the Cold War//////lol