The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Hi again everyone. OK, if you read my newbie post, you'll know I'd ordered two MNs and that due to UK licensing etc., they were going direct to my local firearms dealer. Well, he's still got them until the paperwork is sorted (probably another 6-7 weeks) but I got to have a quick look at them last night and managed to take a few pics, albeit under poor lighting and in a confined space. This topic concerns the first one that I got to look at which I bought as a 1926 Tula Hex.

I know I complained about having to pay more for it, here in the UK, but at least it's been de-cosmo'd and of course it's had the British proof test (where they test fire it with a really hot round to make sure it hangs together), so there's a bit of value add there!

As I've learnt from you fabulous folks and the other MN resources on the web, I fully expected this to be an ex-Dragoon and I think that's what I've got. It has matching numbers (originals I believe, not force-matched) with the exception of the bayonet, dammit. It has crisp, bright rifling and I think the stock is the right era as it has the screwed-in sling mounts. It has a forestock repair that looks proper and I guess was maybe done when it was being specced up to 91/30.

It has lots of other little markings on it, too, one even looks like a jellyfish! And there's one on the receiver that looks like it says "Watt Schu" or "Watt Snu" - an importer perhaps?

Anyhoo, I've posted some pix below and I would love to hear anything and everything you have to say about it or can tell me about it, please. Can't wait for your thoughts and ideas. Thank you!

To the pictures...

Actually, looks like that arrow on the bolt is a Sestroryetsk factory mark...

Awesome! That one is worth waiting for

Nice early Tula! You did very well with this one. Yep, its an ex-dragoon. I haven't seen the jellyfish marks before...pretty cool! I love the stock repair too.

Nice one! Congrats

Well, that answers a couple of questions I asked in the M44 post When you buy a 1926 dated rifle you can be assured that it started off life as a dragoon, the M91/30 didn't come along for another four years and even then all the changes weren't enacted for a few years after that. Nice early stock on that rifle, and a stock repair, the name on it would be an importer of someone doing the proof testing, it is not a Mosin mark. Hopefully you will soon be shooting them both

Thanks very much MN Fan and Junk Yard Dog - it's really encouraging to get positive feedback! I thought it seemed a good-un but you never quite know! Appreciate your thoughts and yes, looking forward to the first trip out with them! Cheers!

Welcome Aboard Grello! That is a great Tula ex-Dragoon, The Tula markings are nice and clean and those are a bit more uncommont to come across amongst the 91/30 refurbs. I also like any stock with repairs, its interesting to see what the Soviet armorers could come up with to keep a stock in serviceable condition. Any chance of getting pics of the inside on that repair when you finally take possesion?

In the U.K. do you get to keep your rifle at home or do you have to keep it at a range armory? The hassels you go through over there are boggeling to get a rifle.

Look forward to more pics and range info though when you get it!

Semper Fi, Rob

Hi Rob! Many thanks for your comments - absolutely everything is appreciated - I'm feeling like a sponge at the moment and I want to hear everything.

Yes, it's quite tight over here on the firearms laws! You have to have a firearms certificate (FAC) which is granted by your local Police Firearms Department in a process that takes many weeks. On the application (or on any subsequent variations), you have to state every calibre you want and what is your good reason for owning it. These are known over here as "slots". So, to get my two Mosins, I needed to have two 7.62x54R "slots" on my FAC and target shooting (as a member of a specific club) as the reason. Once the FAC (or new "slots") have been approved, you can take possession of the firearms and keep them at home, in an approved safe. My issue is that my FAC isn't back yet, so I can't keep what I've bought. To start a collection, I'd need specific collector's dispensation or I'd need to be a Registered Firearms Dealer, which aint very likely!

We also have to state the maximum amount of ammunition we intend to keep, per calibre, and the maximum we intend to buy at any one time, per calibre. Buying a spam can of 440 (if we could find them) is pushing the maximum we'd be allowed to buy in one transaction. All the above is liable to be checked at random by a visit from the Police Firearms teams.

The above applies to rifles, air rifles with an energy over 12 lb ft, air pistols with an energy over 6 lb ft, pistols over a certain length (see below) and shotguns with a capacity of more than two cartridges.

The laws are different for other firearms:

For shotguns with a capacity of up to two cartridges it's slightly less onerous and there's a separate shotgun certificate required (same process to get one though).

Pistols: all pistols are illegal for civilians unless the barrel is at least 30 cm long, and the firearm at least 60 cm long, which can be achieved by having a permanently attached extension to the grip or butt of the firearm. Certain exceptions apply (e.g. humane killers for vets, limited to two shots only; heritage pistols) and may be applied for.

Automatic weapons: all are illegal for civilians. You do see the odd AK47 or similar over here but they must all be converted to single shot only.

It's a bit different here, huh?!

Oh and when I get hold of it, remind me to take it to bits to show you that repair on the inside! Cheers!

I applaud you for persevering through all that red tape! Some of your former colonies over here are similiar. So if you do decide to cross the pond, be sure to check out the laws of every State. Apparently some Revalutionary decendents miss the former arrangement!

You have definately picked the best forum for soaking up information in a friendly manner. There are some other forums to read through as well, but we seem to have more fun here, not quite so uptight!

Semper Fi, Rob

A very nice example of an Ex-Dragoon. It was worth what you paid for it i am sure. I too am glad there are people such as yourself that persevere. I salute you Great Rifle and i like the stock repair also

Thank you Sgt Rob and Desdem12. Spiffing, what-ho (little Brit caricature there!).

Grello, you have good tastes in firearms. That one is a keeper for sure!

Thanks very much SA1911a1 - appreciated!

Jolly good show! You have a really nice rifle and a lot more patience to procure it than most Americans have obtaining something even as simple as a driver's license. I have an Izhevsk 1921 ex-dragoon M91/30 that I am really proud of, but yours is expecially well finished. You will enjoy it; they are great pieces of history thanks to our Russian and Finnish friends. Your post makes us realize the extreme amount of freedom we have in our country to own and bear arms. It makes me appreciate it much more by seeing and reading of your experience in the UK.

I know it is off topic for this particular forum, but I was curious if you have any other military firearms, like maybe a Lee Enfield? We Americans tend to collect at least one of everything (if we can afford it), so you will see many here that own various types of surplus military firearms, myself included.

Welcome to the forum and drink a pint of bitters at the pub for me. Cheers!

Welcome to the forum from another Brit, Nice rifle you have... I also have a ex dragoon a 1927 vintage. This mosin fever will get to you, I now have 5 all Tula's. My FAC office has limited my collection to a max of 5, if I apply for more 54r then I have to become a collector not a shooter. Which will not happen.....

The marks on the receiver 7.62x54r etc look like German proof marks, most M/N entering the UK have these, 2 of mine have the same marks, would seem to be a supply in Germany.

Where do you go to shoot.? and when you do enjoy.
Bet I know the dealer you got it from...

Hi tjtM38 - spiffing comments, thank you! I have put in for a .303 too and I have a SMLE in mind when I can find a good one, yes. Also a .308 which won't be as old. I might go for a Mauser and a Springfield in time, too. We have all those in the club and we are planning a milsurp competition soon.

All the best - time for a cuppa?

Cheers!

Hi Tula Neil! Thanks for that - nice to have that input and good to hear they let you have 5! I'll see what I can achieve later on. Hope you are enjoying all yours?

We shoot at Lydd, Hythe and Bisley, plus the local club. Where do you take yours to shoot?

I got this one from CPG Design - he has about another 6, some equally early ones. The M44 in the other post came from Arundel Militaria. Did you get it right?

TTFN Old Boy!

Hi Grello.

Way of the mark on both counts, never even thought CPG had any left, I did have a good look at the stock last year.

I shoot at Bisley once a month with the club 100-300yds but book longer ranges as a NRA member, there on Friday with my ex dragoon and 1942 91/30 at 600yds should be fun.
I'm down south of the country how about yourself ? (Lydd Hythe) South coast would be my guess.......

On the 5 allowed when I started many years ago it was only 2 of each calibre ( ie smle & No4 in .303) I took me almost 4 years of begging to get them to extend it to 5 last year. Hope you have better luck in your location getting more.

Hi Tula Neil

Thanks for that - East Sussex. You? Have fun at Bisley - not made it there yet myself but hope to soon. Which other dealers have these MNs regularly then? Not too many about. Fenland?

Cheers

Boys, I think we are witnessing an across the pond reunion! I like these guys already, sounds like they are from the Southern part of the country. That has to be good.

Carry on lads.