ATF

[Rowdy1]

I have received over the last three months three phone calls and three emails from the ATF to make sure my firearms are secure and to report any that get stolen or lost. Anyone else?

[CavemanSteve]

No. Are you a c&r holder?

[steelbuttplate]

Not yet.

[Junk Yard Dog]

'bout now you are probably getting a hint of why I dropped the FFL over a decade ago. I decided I didn't want uncle to have any excuse to crawl up my ass about anything. FFL is very convenient when you are actively collecting new items into your collection and want to do it quickly, but it does kinda give BATFE ( ATF is Automatic Transmission Fluid ) a blank check to inspect you whenever they want, and for whatever reason they can think of, and you must produce the book on demand and it better be absolutely perfect. Oh yea, how many sales out of that book is too many sales is a " Gray Area" and up to the individual inspecting agent. No shit, I asked a direct question about this to an agent and got gray area as an answer, how comforting. Just like with the 001 FFL's, if they think you might be selling to the public for profit they can inspect your collection to match each one to the book. Maybe you forgot to enter something, or they think you did and you go to jail. That much government interference won't fly with me. Now my entire collection is mine and I am free to sell every one if I want without noting it down in some damn book, or being interrogated about it later.

[RazorBurn]

Come to think of it a few weeks ago when all the riot insanity started I received an automated call reminding to make sure things were secure. Makes me glad I live in the country where that stupidity doesn't fly.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Maybe they just wanted to be sure you were locked and loaded, claymores facing the front gate and not the house.

[ffuries]

Other than neighbors asking if I was ready and saying if needed for their safety could they come over, no one has asked about my weapons.

Did have a close family friend ask me to accompany him when he goes shopping for a new handgun. Apparently he trusts my input and knows I'll put an end to the BS some dealers throw at less knowledgeable customers.

[Rowdy1]

No. Are you a c&r holder?

Yes

[Rowdy1]

My friend and neighbor has an FFL that allows him to manufacture and sell ARs and anything else. Picture is of the uppers he just received.

C70C50FF-1738-43C1-8732-F0B04029ADB2.jpeg

[WeldonHunter]

'bout now you are probably getting a hint of why I dropped the FFL over a decade ago. I decided I didn't want uncle to have any excuse to crawl up my ass about anything. FFL is very convenient when you are actively collecting new items into your collection and want to do it quickly, but it does kinda give BATFE ( ATF is Automatic Transmission Fluid ) a blank check to inspect you whenever they want, and for whatever reason they can think of, and you must produce the book on demand and it better be absolutely perfect. Oh yea, how many sales out of that book is too many sales is a " Gray Area" and up to the individual inspecting agent. No shit, I asked a direct question about this to an agent and got gray area as an answer, how comforting. Just like with the 001 FFL's, if they think you might be selling to the public for profit they can inspect your collection to match each one to the book. Maybe you forgot to enter something, or they think you did and you go to jail. That much government interference won't fly with me. Now my entire collection is mine and I am free to sell every one if I want without noting it down in some damn book, or being interrogated about it later.

This is why I never got a C&R. People used to tell me I should do it but I didn't feel like dealing with exactly what this post is about and what you mentioned Jim. I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't sell any of the firearms I buy, ever, but I'm not a paperwork guy and would most likely miss something. I also got a first hand education about ATF "Gray Areas" when I went to my FFL to pick up 8 rifles I had bought. His agent asked to speak to me outside. The gist of it was him checking to see why I was buying all these rifles and was I doing straw purchases. I told him I was a collector but I wasn't an 03 holder so I didn't have to worry with my collection being scrutinized. I also told him I know I can sell whatever I want legally but have never sold any of them, not one. We touched on the subject of private sales and selling to a prohibited person. I asked how would I know if someone was prohibited and how the ATF would determine I sold to someone who was knowingly. He said it's judged on a case by case basis, but it's a "Gray Area". His words exactly. So they can make it as they go. To the point of "How would I know if someone is prohibited" he jokingly said if they're driving a lowered car with blinged out wheels and and the stereo rattling the trunk I should maybe think twice about that one.

[Junk Yard Dog]

They pass so many laws that even lawyers have to specialize in firearms law to begin to keep track of them all, then they wait for you to come along and run afoul of some law you didn't even know existed. Of course that up to the individual agent shit means that these laws are enforced selectively, and the criteria for determining if you will or will not be charged with a crime will be different depending on the mood of the agent you run into that particular day. The less interaction you have with government anything the better.

[Darryl]

I've had a C&R License now for over 15 years AND, I'm in California.
I have never had an issue with ATF.
I have never been contacted by ATF or anyone in this State or even locally.
And, ........I am less concerned these days then during the previous administration.

Every once in a while you hear about something like this, but most of them are just "stories". And if you ask who it was, no one can tell you.

I do everything by the book. I have nothing to hide. So, why worry?

Fact is, in California, your C&R by itself is useless, you have to go in and get finger printed and register for what they call a COE (certificate of eligibility) for you to use your C&R for anything. I have that also. Now, if anyone was going to try and harass me it wouldn't be the Feds, it would be the State. But they don't bother me either.

I probably will give up my C&R shortly because I'm moving in a year or so to a "free State". AND, I'm done buying a few years ago. At this point (Legally) I can destroy my books and no one knows what I have.

Only reason I keep it now is.....It's my right ........and I can.

Dolk

[awalker1829]

I keep a log and did so before I got my C&R (which I haven’t used since I got it). The reason I keep a log is so that I can make a report to law enforcement in the event one gets stolen. Never had anything to do with BATFE. Being a court clerk, I am a paperwork guy and records person, so that just seems normal to me.

[awalker1829]

'bout now you are probably getting a hint of why I dropped the FFL over a decade ago. I decided I didn't want uncle to have any excuse to crawl up my ass about anything. FFL is very convenient when you are actively collecting new items into your collection and want to do it quickly, but it does kinda give BATFE ( ATF is Automatic Transmission Fluid ) a blank check to inspect you whenever they want, and for whatever reason they can think of, and you must produce the book on demand and it better be absolutely perfect. Oh yea, how many sales out of that book is too many sales is a " Gray Area" and up to the individual inspecting agent. No shit, I asked a direct question about this to an agent and got gray area as an answer, how comforting. Just like with the 001 FFL's, if they think you might be selling to the public for profit they can inspect your collection to match each one to the book. Maybe you forgot to enter something, or they think you did and you go to jail. That much government interference won't fly with me. Now my entire collection is mine and I am free to sell every one if I want without noting it down in some damn book, or being interrogated about it later.

This is why I never got a C&R. People used to tell me I should do it but I didn't feel like dealing with exactly what this post is about and what you mentioned Jim. I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't sell any of the firearms I buy, ever, but I'm not a paperwork guy and would most likely miss something. I also got a first hand education about ATF "Gray Areas" when I went to my FFL to pick up 8 rifles I had bought. His agent asked to speak to me outside. The gist of it was him checking to see why I was buying all these rifles and was I doing straw purchases. I told him I was a collector but I wasn't an 03 holder so I didn't have to worry with my collection being scrutinized. I also told him I know I can sell whatever I want legally but have never sold any of them, not one. We touched on the subject of private sales and selling to a prohibited person. I asked how would I know if someone was prohibited and how the ATF would determine I sold to someone who was knowingly. He said it's judged on a case by case basis, but it's a "Gray Area". His words exactly. So they can make it as they go. To the point of "How would I know if someone is prohibited" he jokingly said if they're driving a lowered car with blinged out wheels and and the stereo rattling the trunk I should maybe think twice about that one.

Down here, some dealers have a policy of not doing multiple transfers of certain types of firearms at the same time. Being in Arizona, they get extra scrutiny with good reason.

[WeldonHunter]

'bout now you are probably getting a hint of why I dropped the FFL over a decade ago. I decided I didn't want uncle to have any excuse to crawl up my ass about anything. FFL is very convenient when you are actively collecting new items into your collection and want to do it quickly, but it does kinda give BATFE ( ATF is Automatic Transmission Fluid ) a blank check to inspect you whenever they want, and for whatever reason they can think of, and you must produce the book on demand and it better be absolutely perfect. Oh yea, how many sales out of that book is too many sales is a " Gray Area" and up to the individual inspecting agent. No shit, I asked a direct question about this to an agent and got gray area as an answer, how comforting. Just like with the 001 FFL's, if they think you might be selling to the public for profit they can inspect your collection to match each one to the book. Maybe you forgot to enter something, or they think you did and you go to jail. That much government interference won't fly with me. Now my entire collection is mine and I am free to sell every one if I want without noting it down in some damn book, or being interrogated about it later.

This is why I never got a C&R. People used to tell me I should do it but I didn't feel like dealing with exactly what this post is about and what you mentioned Jim. I'm not doing anything illegal and I don't sell any of the firearms I buy, ever, but I'm not a paperwork guy and would most likely miss something. I also got a first hand education about ATF "Gray Areas" when I went to my FFL to pick up 8 rifles I had bought. His agent asked to speak to me outside. The gist of it was him checking to see why I was buying all these rifles and was I doing straw purchases. I told him I was a collector but I wasn't an 03 holder so I didn't have to worry with my collection being scrutinized. I also told him I know I can sell whatever I want legally but have never sold any of them, not one. We touched on the subject of private sales and selling to a prohibited person. I asked how would I know if someone was prohibited and how the ATF would determine I sold to someone who was knowingly. He said it's judged on a case by case basis, but it's a "Gray Area". His words exactly. So they can make it as they go. To the point of "How would I know if someone is prohibited" he jokingly said if they're driving a lowered car with blinged out wheels and and the stereo rattling the trunk I should maybe think twice about that one.

Down here, some dealers have a policy of not doing multiple transfers of certain types of firearms at the same time. Being in Arizona, they get extra scrutiny with good reason.

I'm in Louisiana and the rifles I bought were a bunch of M91/30s, a Mauser or two and I think maybe an SKS but I can't remember exactly. The agent turned out to be a decent guy and we finished the conversation talking about mil-surp rifles, specifically Garands which he's a collector of. I even invited him to come shoot with us sometime. I'm lucky my FFL is now a friend for the most part. He was only charging me $20 no matter what I needed transferred and the last time his wife didn't even charge me. It helps I take them boxes full of cartons of eggs. I never meant it to be trade thing, I have lots of extra eggs we just give away to friends and neighbors and I did the same with them because they always treated me great.

[Darryl]

I've receive a few PM's about "destroying your book" when you surrender you C&R license.
So...........
For 01ffl they are required to send their books in when they surrender their license (quit)
That is not required of a 03ffl (C&R). You can destroy your books when done.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-lic ... nue-their
Are licensed collectors required to turn in their A&D records to ATF if they discontinue their collecting activity?

No. Licensed collectors are not required to submit their acquisition and disposition (A&D) records to ATF upon discontinuance of their collecting activity.

[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4); 27 CFR 478.127]


This is for "collectors" (C&R) license only.

Once your book is "destroyed" there is no record of what you have ever purchased or sold.


Dolk

[steelbuttplate]

The main reason I'm keeping mine now is most 01's won't accept a gun from a non FFL. I can't keep 'em all and can't take 'em with me.

[Junk Yard Dog]

The main reason I'm keeping mine now is most 01's won't accept a gun from a non FFL. I can't keep 'em all and can't take 'em with me.

Adopt ancient Egyptian religion and then you can take it all with you.

[awalker1829]

The main reason I'm keeping mine now is most 01's won't accept a gun from a non FFL. I can't keep 'em all and can't take 'em with me.

Adopt ancient Egyptian religion and then you can take it all with you.

True. However you might need to buy an extra plot if you're going into a cemetery.

[Junk Yard Dog]

For some around here a decommissioned missile silo might work.