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I recently purchased an 1894 Mosin Nagant for $150 not knowing much about them. I did as much research as I could and found that it is a Sestroryetsk model. Also has many other markings including Finn and I believe American. If anyone could help me learn more about this Mosin I would greatly appreciate it. Rarity, Origin, Travels or anything else that may be of relevance.
I've also added images of the rifle. If you notice something in the gallery that I did not please feel free to share! This has been an amazing history lesson and I would love to fully understand this rifles origins and travels.
*Izhevsk Bow and Arrow - Cocking knob
Finnish Army mark - Barrel shank *Tula Star - Bolt body *Tula Star - Cocking knob
Reworked for Finnish D166 cartridge - Barrel shank [SA]
Accepetance Proof - Barrel shank
Russian Firing Proof - Barrel shank (K) *Tula Hammer in Circle - Bolt body
Remington Firing Proof - Bolt body (R)?
Remarked Finnish for meters from Russian arshin - Rear sight *Izhevsk Bow and Arrow - Bolt body
Russian - Sestroryetsk Ordnance Factory, M91 (1892-1918) Roll Mark *(P) with star above on receiver - Chatellerault *Sestroryetsk arrow - Handguard Band
So far I've located 4 different identifiable marks from the 3 Russian and 1 French Ordnance Plants of the M91. Along with a few other markings that I am unable to find the origin of.
*I just recently acquired information on the first private buyer of this rifle in the U.S. He purchased the rifle from the Sportman's Guide catalog in the early 90's. It came wrapped in grease paper and cosmoline so he believes it had just come out of long term storage at that point. This may be why I was unable to find import markings.
I was also curious if this Mosin Nagant was something that could be added to the SHOWCASE? Would love some feedback, Thanks!
Last edited by Almost_Samurai on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Thanks Millman! I looked over this thing top to bottom... Why are there no import markings on it? Does that help or hurt the rifle?
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
Now this one's a legit museum piece! By the way, I've heard that Finland is actually THE source for late 19th century and pre-WW1 Mosins as they got their independence from Russia after 1917... Are these that common in the USA? I've seen only one 19th century Mosin in my life at a militaria fair and it didn't have any Finnish refurb markings, but that's because it had made its way into Western Europe with the Russian volunteer unit that fought on the Western Front of WW1.
Thank you Foxbat_25! I can assure you I was very excited when I started researching it and the condition it was in. I'm here to learn as much as possible. I know it's a Finn Capture. It has been reworked many times judging by all of the different ordnance plant markings. I'm not sure how common they are, partially why I am here All I know is I mentioned to my brother-in-law that I was really interested in Mosins and he was happy to part with it.
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
That is very nice and highly collectible. Remember that if you make any modifications, or try to refinish it that the value will be destroyed. Also, you may have discovered, that on m91 barrel bands, the retaining screw is left hand thread, and you only turn them clockwise enough to spread the band for removal. A lot of people have stripped them thinking that they were seized when they were not. Congrats on a fine rifle. Welcome to the RMNF forums.
Almost_Samurai wrote:Thanks Millman! I looked over this thing top to bottom... Why are there no import markings on it? Does that help or hurt the rifle?
Look out by the muzzle for a small import mark. If it doesn't have one it means it was imported pre 1968. It isn't a bad thing if it doesn't have one.
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
bunkysdad wrote:That is very nice and highly collectible. Remember that if you make any modifications, or try to refinish it that the value will be destroyed. Also, you may have discovered, that on m91 barrel bands, the retaining screw is left hand thread, and you only turn them clockwise enough to spread the band for removal. A lot of people have stripped them thinking that they were seized when they were not. Congrats on a fine rifle. Welcome to the RMNF forums.
Thank You Bunkysdad!! I appreciate being accepted in to this community, looking to learn! I have not done nor will I be doing ANY modifications to this rifle. Sadly those screws were stripped when I purchased it although I was able to carefully righty loosen them to strip the rifle, someone previously must have forgot
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
Yeah, not surprised. Just imagine all the handling that has seen in the last century! Amazing to find these at all. We had a window of opportunity in this country thanks to the stockpiles that had been sitting for decades in storage and the fact that so many of those countries needed to sell them and now they are drying up again and prices are escalating. I bet your rifle is worth 4 times what you paid.
To the best of my knowledge this is a Chatellerault receiver, I know they are much more rare than the Sestroryetsk. Which part of a gun like this determines what it is? The Receiver, Bolt and Barrel are all important and everyone of mine is marked differently....I'm sure there is a common knowledge to most here. At what point does it lower it's rarity?
Another question I have is based on the pictures I provided can anyone determine the last time this rifle was worked on based on differences in stamps from the same factories?
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
The barrel, because this is were the markings are, the receiver has stamps were you can't see them, but the barrel is what people see. Most , almost all Mosins will be found with mixed parts. The Soviet system didn't allow for replacing entire firearms once they became worn, they were repaired with whatever parts were at hand and returned to service. All Chatellerault are rare, no matter what mix of parts, these are the oldest of Mosins.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
I would say it was Finnish rearsenalled after WW2. The bluing is awfully nice not to have been.
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Thank you gentlemen, very interesting. I'm on the hunt for an M91 bayonet now, time to hit some gun shows!
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
Longcolt44, In the main topic matter there is a link to a gallery of Pictures... Where it says 1894 Sestroryetsk above all the listed markings... That's the link to like 20 pictures on imgur. There's pictures of every inch of this rifle, too many I thought to put in the main topic. If the link does not work for you please let me know.
Last edited by Almost_Samurai on Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
It might not actually be a "Finnish Capture." Many Mosins were already in Finland, which was part of Russia until independence came about during the Russian Revolution. Also, Finland bought many Mosins between the wars that had been captured from the Russians by other countries in WWI.
There are other sources of 1890s Mosins than Finland. I have a number before 1900 with no Finnish markings. They come from Spain and some of the Balkan Countries. I also have a 1894 Sestroryetsk that came from Japan, captured during the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-1905. (See the Showcase here for that one.)
Neal45, Oh I did peek at your '91, beautiful! I've been lurking all posts related to the '91 hoping to find new information. I've documented everything I could find on this Rifle that's "in stone" I have an ongoing folder of interesting things I've found that can be proved. Part of the reason I am here is to perhaps learn a bit more that I can add to this rifles "dossier" This is my first Mosin but I am a collector at heart and my OCD often gets the best of me when it comes to organization and detail.
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
Hahaha gopedxr7, I'll be holding onto this one for now. I believe Sestroryetsk produced Rifles from 1892 to 1918. So this is a fairly early one for sure.
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I’ll kill you all." -Message to Iraqi leaders following the invasion. (General "MAD DOG" Mattis)
Almost_Samurai wrote:To the best of my knowledge this is a Chatellerault receiver, I know they are much more rare than the Sestroryetsk. Which part of a gun like this determines what it is?
The rifle would be considered a Sestroretsk. The receiver is what counts as the actual firearm according to the ATF. It's odd that I've seen quite a few Finnish marked Sestroretsk rifles mated to Chatellerault receivers (my Sestroretsk has a Chatellerault receiver). $150 is a great price for the rifle, although the stock appears to have been sanded with a light coat of poly (at least it looks that way in the photos). Regardless, I haven't seen too many 1890 era Sestroretsk rifles.
All I know is I mentioned to my brother-in-law that I was really interested in Mosins and he was happy to part with it.
