M38 issued as a sniper's rifle?

[Simo]

Is there any truth to the M38 being outfitted with optics and issued as a sniper's rifle(carbine)

[desdem12]

Not that i have ever heard. The M38 was issued to troops in the back, like tank crews and support groups and such. A carbine as a sniper would not be as acurate as the longer 91/30s. There were pe and pem snipers before the pu's but i have never heard of a sniper M38 that wasn't from the bad hands of bubba.

[BuckeyeSgt]

Not that I have have ever heard of.

[Simo]

If you think about it though, it would have excelled in the battle of Stalingrad and other urban / industrial fields of battle. I think it would suck manipulating a 4 foot long sniper rifle in all of those buildings and tunnels.

[desdem12]

They were evidently good at it though. I kinda like the big old girls

[Simo]

They were evidently good at it though. I kinda like the big old girls

yeah, there is no denying their damage that is for sure!

[MN Fan]

I don't think the Red Army war machine ever once considered the concept of "convenience". Simple, rugged, abundance and accuracy was their only plan. A scoped M38 would have made an excellent infantry support rifle in an urban setting. But then so would the 91/30 based snipers, so they made a kabillion of those instead

Besides, there were likely 3 or 4 soldiers per rifle at times. Having a carbine versus a long rifle really wouldn't have lightened the load for them.

They did lose the War...all of them. A slightly different philosophy on their part and who knows how history would have been written?

[Junk Yard Dog]

The M38 was conceived as a weapon for RAMF's, junior officers and others who were near enough to the front to require a weapon, but not in enough contact with the enemy to need the full size infantry rifle. Much like the thinking behind our own M1 Carbine. Earlier carbines were made for cavalry, and it wasn't until 1943 that the M44 came along to replace the long 91/30. Even then the USSR never put a scope on the M44, there were enough pu snipers around to fill the need by then.

[Jumperwire]

Then to add to that, Simo Häyhä used iron sights the majority of the time. IIRC The PU Scope is only 3.5 or 4x, so it's not like today's scopes that you can count whiskers or tire treads at 200 yards.

[zeebill]

Is there any truth to the M38 being outfitted with optics and issued as a sniper's rifle(carbine)

No! Why would they do that when the had millions of 91/30's which shot farther more accurately at a higher muzzle velocity in that configuration already? If you find one be assured it is bogus period! I would say even beyond discussion as it just never would have happend . Bill

[bunkysdad]

Exactly.

[Simo]

I guess that answers my question and debunks the myth

[zeebill]

Lord luv a duck that doesn't put us in the "Mythbusters" league does it? Bill

[Noble Sniper]

There are examples of them on display in arms museums in Russia. They were evidently made in short order ( no pun intended) and issued by the kgb. Hope this helps ;)

[CW Spook]

I think the question arises because a few years back, some unscrupulous dealer modified a bunch of M38s by fitting PSO AK scopes to them and trying to pass them off as "Russian Forest Ranger" rifles. There's never been proof that any such thing ever really existed.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Like Gibbs and the No7 jungle carbine they made from Indian 7.62mm Enfields back in the 90's. Always someone trying to turn a fast buck off of bullshit.

[zeebill]

The fact of the matter on most Russian and com bloc rifles and weapons is while many prototype and one time examples exist in museums. Their issuance to front line or line troops of any kind just did not happen often if ever. There fore they never issued a sniper rifle M38 was why I stated that. Many rifles in museums all over the world exist merely to glorify the country who made them in history and great strides forward in a hard time for the country usually. They really are there to glorify the nationalistic pride of the country and I guess rightly so. Things like the Peterson device in our history are a prime example. Did it ever see service and was it ever issued to field troops? How many examples of the SVT Carbine were issued into the field? All these things represent massive strides forward in technology that really never saw issuance or widespread use and made a difference in a conflict. They might have existed in a very limited amount but they were not issued widely if at all. Bill

[Sgt. Rob]

Actually, pedersen devices were issued for a short time to U.S. troops stationed in the Panama canal zone. Same place where they also tested the shortened M1903 rifles. But another good example of museum pieces that never got to front line service was the M1 garand in full auto and modified for the BAR magazine. According to Scott Duff, they were to be used in the invasion of Japan, but the atomic bombs scrapped the project. The few that exist are at the Springfield armory museum.

All kinds of wierd stuff gets experimented with, and if were lucky one or two pieces make it to museums. Generally they get scrapped if not adopted.

Semper Fi, Rob