The Russian Mosin Nagant Forum

Local shooting range had a fund raiser shoot, all day pass for $5. So my son (24) and I went for a couple hours taking a Garand, 39 Tula 91/30 and 54 T53. At 100 yds they have steel gongs that are about 6"x12", or roughly the size of a shoe box. Unpacking the rifles we had a few people stop to look at them. We get comments like "are 75 year old rifles safe to shoot? You don't have 'scopes for those rifles?, etc. After about 45 min I notice my son quietly laughing and ask whats so funny. He said look around, we are surrounded by scoped ARs and shot for shot we are hitting the gongs at least twice as often as the people around us. I looked around and he was correct. Our rifles are in good condition, well maintained and were operating withing their design specs. So I simply told him that if he couldn't consistently hit shoe box sized target at 100yds I'd be evaluating his technique to determine what he was doing wrong.

It's not about how much mall ninja tacticool you have hanging on a rifle, it's about how good of a rifleman you are.

Nice way to show up the wanna be shooters!

That's pretty darn cool!

I'm surprised they let you shoot the Mosin at steel. Sounds like you guys had fun.

That's how it is at the range I go to. I usually take an AR and some Mosins and have no problem hitting the gongs at 300 yards with open sights, sometimes standing. It is funny to see other shooters with high powered scopes not hitting the gongs and wonder why these old wooden rifles can for as old as they are.

The 300 yard gongs "ping" when the 5.56 hits it but when the 7.62 hits it, its a really rings loud "DONG".

We had quartering winds at 5 mph gusting to around 15. That may have been throwing the some of the AR shooters off. I spent enough years shooting at Camp Perry that light wind does not bother me and light wind like that is not going to effect M2 ball and 7.62 light ball much at 100 yds anyway. And yes, we did have a lot of fun.

My cuz had his home made made 1/2" round pistol target at 50 yd, I was shooting a .303 Enfield at targets at 100. On my last round, He says, shoot that pistol target. I said it will tear it up, these are greek HXP surplus. Na, won't hurt it. when I fired the 8" target and angle iorn went turning flips up the field, It blew a hole bout .50 cal in it, looked like exit hole both sides......Hooyaaah
SBP

jones0430 wrote:It's not about how much mall ninja tacticool you have hanging on a rifle, it's about how good of a rifleman you are.

This^^^^^^ EXACTLY.
Jon

We have chased a few plastic rifle shooters off the range before. They cant seem to hit much with the high dollar crap

desdem12 wrote: We have chased a few plastic rifle shooters off the range before. They cant seem to hit much with the high dollar crap

"CRAP" is the key operative word here. Can some one PLEASE explain the obsession with black rifles to me?? I don't currently, nor will I EVER own one. They do absolutely nothing for me. I just don't understand..............................
Thanks,
Jon

musketjon wrote:

desdem12 wrote: We have chased a few plastic rifle shooters off the range before. They cant seem to hit much with the high dollar crap

"CRAP" is the key operative word here. Can some one PLEASE explain the obsession with black rifles to me?? I don't currently, nor will I EVER own one. They do absolutely nothing for me. I just don't understand..............................
Thanks,
Jon

I think part of it is the caliber. Just about anyone should be able to learn to shoot 223 well with a little instruction, partially because of the low recoil. However I think a lot of the attraction is that modern ARs are modular. There is ALWAYs something else you can buy for an AR that will help you shoot better or make it look better. At least according to the advertising.

musketjon wrote:

desdem12 wrote: We have chased a few plastic rifle shooters off the range before. They cant seem to hit much with the high dollar crap

"CRAP" is the key operative word here. Can some one PLEASE explain the obsession with black rifles to me?? I don't currently, nor will I EVER own one. They do absolutely nothing for me. I just don't understand..............................
Thanks,
Jon

Let's get this out of the way, they are not "CRAP". Aside from ones made my lower tier companies, AR's are a reliable sporting rifle capable of being very accurate and putting rounds on target without beating up your wallet or shoulder.

What draws people to them is the fact they are the civilian version of the US military's battle rifle. As such, it's somewhat "cool" to have one, but aside from that, there are millions of vets who have carried them while service, know how to shoot them, maintain them, and are very comfortable with them. They're a known entity.

Now, that being said, since they are the most popular rifle in the US there is a HUGE segment of owners who have bought these due to the cool factor, desire to have one before they get banned, might be a prepper, etc. A lot of AR owners are inexperienced shooters and have limited to no shooting experience and can't hit the broad side of a barn, but they'd be bad shooters with whatever you gave them.

In those cases, it's not the rifle's fault. My AR's are much more accurate than any Mosin I own simply because I know how to shoot my ARs, have more trigger time on them, and yes, because they have optics that allow for precision.

With iron sights I think it's a toss up IF the Mosin is a decent shooter. It's more about the shooter in that situation.

Good shooting you guys! Show up those black-rifle tactacool wannabes.

musketjon wrote:

desdem12 wrote: We have chased a few plastic rifle shooters off the range before. They cant seem to hit much with the high dollar crap

"CRAP" is the key operative word here. Can some one PLEASE explain the obsession with black rifles to me?? I don't currently, nor will I EVER own one. They do absolutely nothing for me. I just don't understand..............................
Thanks,
Jon

Same here... I love old guns with wood stocks & open sights. No interest in the mall ninja theme.

How can guys with plastic rifles with no recoil and optics miss anything larger that a fly? I just don't get it.

Last Friday at my (indoor) range. Distance 100 m, I had my Finnish M39 and a mixed bag of surplus (Polish 1953 LB, Czech 1968 silver tip LB, Hungarian 1970s yellow/silver tip HB). The guy next to me had a really nice-looking, scoped .223 Rem. H&K SL 8 - don't know which ammo he used, however. To make a long story short - the groups I shot with iron sights were absolutely comparable to his ones with a scope. Well, I guess it simply wasn't his day, for he's definitely no novice, I see him frequently at the range.

musketjon wrote:

jones0430 wrote:It's not about how much mall ninja tacticool you have hanging on a rifle, it's about how good of a rifleman you are.

This^^^^^^ EXACTLY.
Jon

A good rifleman will shoot good with any rifle- a good rifle becomes a precision machine in his hands-; A bad one will do better than he would otherwise with a good one, but will still be bad. Rongo and I have seen this proven many times at the range. (and at Dedcat's Shooting Emporium™, back in the day....)

Rongo wrote:Good shooting you guys! Show up those black-rifle tactacool wannabes.


Same here... I love old guns with wood stocks & open sights. No interest in the mall ninja theme.

I like both (Well not the whole mallninja setup), but 'black rifles' in general; all it takes to be good with either is trigger time spent in the pursuit of marksmanship, not just blasting away.....

I think the heart of the problem is that most men think they can shoot simply by virtue of being male. Unless you went through some mandatory training, (how many here remember BRM Week?) or had training in another form you tend to pick up bad habits. I expect my kids to shoot well because their instruction started when they were 5-6. Unfortunately watching a lot of people at the range these days I suspect their training came from a video game.

walnut red wrote:I think the heart of the problem is that most men think they can shoot simply by virtue of being male. Unless you went through some mandatory training,
or had training in another form you tend to pick up bad habits. I expect my kids to shoot well because their instruction started when they were 5-6. Unfortunately watching a lot of people at the range these days I suspect their training came from a video game.

+1.
In 4-H the girls usually pass the boys up in accuracy, because they listen! They are also safer for the same reason. The boys are why I drill safety into their heads every range session..


(how many here remember BRM Week?)

Ah, yes, when the Drills were suddenly your best buddy, because they realized you had the power of life and death in your hands.....and you were too tired from the road marches out and back to the range for any shennanigans in the barracks, anyway.

The mall ninjas spend exorbitant amounts of money on their "rifles" and then go to the range and figure they can hit everything. I have learned to shoot as a kid and don't even have a scoped rifle. They get mad when you have an "old junker" that can out shoot them when it is the person mostly.