Remington pistol grip "cadet" rifle

[AndrewJ]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell me more about the Remington rifles that were made by using obsolete 1867 pistol grips.
These rifles appear in adverts in the early 1900's and are described as "cadet" rifle. They are chambered for the 50-45 Remington cartridge just like the big frame 1867 cadet rifles. As far as I know Remington bought back a lot of the Navy 1867 pistols during the great sales of military surplus in 1898 and 1899. A lot of these pistols were reworked and then sold of to civilians. As far as I know these sales were not too succesfull since most people preferred a six shooter or an early semi-auto pistol above a single shot cartidge pistol. Story goes that Remington decided to change a batch of the pistols into a cheap single shot breech loader rifle. They built these rifles with materials they had lying around. So the woodwork was all taken from other guns and reworked to fit the pistol frame. THey did this too with the barrels, which were reworked and chambered for the 50-45. Thus creating an elegant and light breech loader with rolling block action. For sales purposes it was named "cadet" rifle.
Is there anyone who can confirm this information or can add something to it.
thanls
Andries

[Junk Yard Dog]

Remington was already making the 50/70 rolling block rifle and carbine for New York State, I have such a carbine right here with me now. The company was famous for making as much use as possible of the leftover rifles and parts from it's military contracts. Not being a government arsenal when a contract ended they couldn't just toss all the leftovers into a pile and sell them to Bannerman as scrap, they had to show a profit. Cadet rifles needed to be cheap and functional for the many military schools of the period that used them. I don't know your specific rifle, but it sounds typical of what they would cobble together, pistol or rifle parts, whatever would work they would use.

[AndrewJ]

Hi, It has been my experience too that Remington used anything they had lying around to fullfil an order. At one point I owned three New York State Militia 50-70 rifles. Technically and functionaly they were exactly the same. The woodwork on every gun was different in detail. One of them had a buttstock that was exactly the same as an Egyptian buttstock. Two of the rifles had high spur hammers and one had a low spur hammer but they all had the typical NYS checkered badge on the hammer spur. All three had a different sight and these could be related to other Rolling Block rifles beeing in production at that time.
My cadet rifle has a sight that was used on the saddle ring carbines. The buttstock is altered to fit the pistol frame and shows inserts were a sling swivel once was mounted. It also shows inserts to fit the small frame in place were a larger frame was meant to be. The front stock is positioned by an insert in the bottom of the barrel. This insert appeared to be a New Model Army barrel cone.
I think I managed to add a picture so you know what model I am talking about.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Remember that these were state militia rifles, not national army rifles from the arsenal. Remington was not bound by ridged army specifications and government inspectors as when producing rifles for The US , Russia, or other nations. The state government had budget issues then as now, they bought rifles in lots as needed and they would have been slightly more lenient about minor parts changes. Once the rifles were in NYS hands they were used for a very long time, my grandfather's initial training in the state guard in 1928 was done with these Remington's. He eventually received a 1903 as by that time the state was taking arms from the national arsenals like most other states. Some of the part swapping would have been done in NYS armorys to keep the rifles functional, you can see from the appearance of most NYS Remingtons how hard and long a service they had. I got lucky with the carbine I collected last summer, it's wood has minor issues, but the bore is clean with strong rifling, the action is rock solid, good enough to still be a shooter is I want. Most other NYS Remington's I have handled struck me more as wallhangers. A sharp contrast to the US governments trapdoor rifles, most of them have plenty of life left in them, but then Uncle could spend more on spare parts, and upkeep.

[AndrewJ]

Hi, Off course the NYC rifles were not national Army rifles and therefor there is not an arsenal standard. I even believe Remington made the New York state an offer they could not refuse, simply because Remington desparately wanted to sell Rolling Blocks on the US homemarket. To be able to deliver the NYC rifles without suffering a loss I believe they made them largeley from parts the had lying around. Most of the previous contracts had been foreign. At that moment they were in the race for a new national Army rifle. In spite of the introduction of the Rolling Block in the NYS militia the ordonance board decided to go for the Trapdoor system and changed the national caliber to 45-70.

I did not realise the NYC rifle had been in service that long. Amazing the NYC militia was running around with single shot breech loaders in 50-70 blackpowder calibre up to 1928. I have obviously been lucky with my NYC rifles. All three were excellent shooters and had perfectly functioning actions. Even though two of them had the exterior battlescars you describe.
You have got to try your carbine on the range. With a full rifle cartridge carbines are great fun to shoot. It will be violant but exciting compared to a rifle. I know, I used to shoot a Swedish carbine in 12.7x44, which is a cartridge that is nearly the same as the 50-70.