Drago's DDR TUTORIAL (sticky)

[boomer34]

Very nice writeup Drago. My Izhevsk ex-DDR was one of the rifles under discussion when this whole thing came up about 18 months ago. It has the /1\, the handguard serial number but the stock is stamped with the serial number at right angles to the stock. It has no refurb mark but has the BBQ paint. I think the stock is a new replacement stock with the proper serial number stamped on it. Of course, it is complete numbers matching. A mystery to me is why, with the BBQ paint and the new stock, this Izhevsk did not have the refrub mark on the receiver cover.

What I notice on one or two of the stocks seen here is that the old serial number is still somewhat there (at right angles) along with faint signs of the Tula Arsenal mark with the DDR horizontal serial number also placed there.

I am going to disagree with the attitude that the ex DDR rifles are just every where and can be picked uo at will. That is not the case by any means. Granted, those such as Drago who know what they are looking for can find them with a lot of fore knowledge and digging. Some can be discovered in long forgotten spots in storage. But to one that looks over 30-50 SKS rifles every day, twice a day on GunBroker up for auction, they are not common by a long shot. They are there from time to time, usually not described properly by the seller. For those who care to invest the time to seek these type rifles out, a good value can sometimes be found (i.e. around $400). If it is properly documented as an ex- DDR- not the case.

Some will bring up the point of all the other auction sites on the web. I have looked into them and there is not one of these sites that have anywhere near the Russian SKS available on a daily basis as GunBroker shows. My conclusions are drawn from GB.

I would post some pics but I cannot figure out this format. Any help would be appreciated.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I load my pics to my free photobucket.com account and copy/paste the link code for forums that they provide right into my posts. It's easy and free, the pics stay in photobucket if you need them again. I would have lost 1000+ pics that were in my home pc when it crashed had they not been loaded to photobucket.

[Greasemonkey]

Nice write up, always nice to learn new info. And wow, I like the stock coloration.

Something I've wondered, is it possible to have the /1\ stamp on receiver/bayonet and a non marked stock/handguard as in say the case of a Russian refurb, the ones that have a serial x'ed out and restamped. I dug my early '50 Russian to check, it has what looks like the stamp on receiver/bayonet, but a normal refurb stock. Just curious and I can try and get a photo if it helps.

[Drago]

Nice write up, always nice to learn new info. And wow, I like the stock coloration.

Something I've wondered, is it possible to have the /1\ stamp on receiver/bayonet and a non marked stock/handguard as in say the case of a Russian refurb, the ones that have a serial x'ed out and restamped. I dug my early '50 Russian to check, it has what looks like the stamp on receiver/bayonet, but a normal refurb stock. Just curious and I can try and get a photo if it helps.

As with most mil-surp firearms, pretty much anything is possible. If the serial number on the stock matches the receiver S/N, it would be a rare bird to actually have the Ex-DDR type /1\. However, since it's never truly been proven that the /1\ is in fact a DDR mark (only assumed), then a rifle such as this would certainly open the doors for additional mystery. Now, if the stock S/N did not match the receiver S/N, then would could assume that the stock and handguard were replaced for a 2nd time. And, that replacement wouldn't necessarily have had to come from a rearsenal facility. It could have been done over here by some collector just wanting a different stock on it. Pics will definitely help.

Something else everyone should know, if you are new to Russian SKS's...It's fairly common to see all kinds of marks all over Russians. They loved to stamp everything. On one of my Russians, I counted over 40 individual little stampings. It's like "Boris" did the work, signed off on it, then his boss "Vladimir" came along, checked Boris' work and made his approval mark and so on. I don't know if this is the case, but why do things like the bolt sometimes have 5-10 different stampings on them? I've also seen /1\'s on other parts of regular Russian rifles, but they are smaller in size than the Ex-DDR /1\ mark. The Ex-DDR /1\ is usually about 1 1/2 times the size of the font of the receiver S/N and it seems to always be placed somewhere on the flat part of the receiver, not where the barrel lug and the front trunnion are located. I'll try and find a pic of what I am talking about. I've seen a lot of people think they have a DDR marking, when it really is just some acceptance stamping for a part.

I found a pic of what I was talking about and made some notations. I hope this makes it a little more clear.

[boomer34]

For the comment above about the serial number on the stock being horizontal, here is one that is at right angles.

ex-DDR proofs:






Stock



Rifle

[millman]

Cool, another laminated handguard.

[boomer34]

Interesting that the laminated handguard is on a birch stocked rifle. Usually it is a birch handguard on a laminated stock. Many Tulas, not ex-DDRs, like that that have gone through refurb.

I have a 53 Izhevsk refurb that has a laminated stock and had a birch handguard. I have just changed the handguard to a laminated one.

As has been brought out by Drago, there is no way to know how these various combinations on the Russian SKS came into being either on the assembly line or in the refurb process. We will have to just enjoy what we have of them and contunue to make known their variations.

[Drago]

Interesting that the laminated handguard is on a birch stocked rifle. Usually it is a birch handguard on a laminated stock. Many Tulas, not ex-DDRs, like that that have gone through refurb.

I have a 53 Izhevsk refurb that has a laminated stock and had a birch handguard. I have just changed the handguard to a laminated one.

As has been brought out by Drago, there is no way to know how these various combinations on the Russian SKS came into being either on the assembly line or in the refurb process. We will have to just enjoy what we have of them and contunue to make known their variations.

Something that just dawned on me, I don't think I can remember ever seeing a DDR marked SKS with the handguards S/N'd and the normal verticle (right angle) marked S/N on the buttstock, except on your and my Izhevsk, Boomer. Anyone else ever see a Tula like this? If not, I wonder why just some Izhevsk's were done this way? Like we really need more mystery....

[martin08]

There were so few Izhevsk SKS's exported to the US compared to the Tula, that I don't recall too many Izhevsks with DDR markings except for yours and Boomer's. Right now, it could be concluded that they are the only ones with the vertical numbering, but it is an extremely small sampling.

[boomer34]

There was some speculation about 18 months ago about how many Izzys made it to the U.S. I believe that number, pure guess work, was about 100 Tulas for every Izhevsk. In my posting of the GunBroker sales and watching whatever is listed for auction I, from observation, do not think that number is very far off.

Now if we turn around and look for ex DDR Izzys, the relationship goes much higher. Drago's, mine and there was maybe one or two others on another forum are all the ex DDR Izhevsk marked rifles I have heard of. Maybe a very rare bird here in the U.S.

[OLD OUTLAW]

Drago! Got a shiny Polished Chrome original 51 bayo coming in hopefully tomorrow from tracker1. Gonna put it on that new 51 of mine I think. BUT,
the black polished chrome bayo I may put on a refurb I have. I had no earthly idea what a Russian black polished chrome was worh. T1 told me what the last one he saw sold at auction for. You ready for this. $102.50. Wow, Wow, did I say Wow?

Now the 51 is totally original by all definitions. It will be exactly the same as it left the Tula Plant in 1951! YES

[Drago]

You, sir, are not arsenal authorized to alter that pristne rifle! ;) In the year I've been collecting SKS's, I have yet to see a black bayo pop up on auction, but I admit I'm not often looking, either. $100 seems steep, but they are cool!

[Drago]

I keep forgetting that not everyone on this board is a SKS pro, but there seemed to be a lot of interest in learning more about the DDR variant. Here is the first DDR sold this year on Gunbroker. I felt the price was pretty high (about $75 over what I'd have paid), but it is a VERY fine example. It clearly has the definitive DDR S/N on the stock and handguard, plus you can make out the /1\ to the left of the receiver serial number. Also, this rifle exhibits the "charcoaling" stock color that I spoke earlier about. The rifle is a 1954 which is a fairly common year for refurb's and another reason why I think the price is stiff. For you guys that are learning and looking, this should help you out some more.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =265047446

[MN Fan]

I see the dark stock splotches, the /1\, the handguard stamp and the horizontal butt stock stamp! There wasn't a photo available to see if if has the bayonet stamp. All in all, I'd say your tutorial was well done...I was able to find 4 out of 5 identification marks

It is a nice example. Thanks again Drago...

[Drago]

I see the dark stock splotches, the /1\, the handguard stamp and the horizontal butt stock stamp! There wasn't a photo available to see if if has the bayonet stamp. All in all, I'd say your tutorial was well done...I was able to find 4 out of 5 identification marks

It is a nice example. Thanks again Drago...

Thanks, I appreciate it. You probably will never see one with pics of the bayo, since no one knows to look for a mark there. I only noticed it because I had all my DDR's literally lying next to each other and I was pouring over each one doing comparison's. That's when I noticed that all of the bayo's on the DDR's had some marks. I'd have never thought to notice it otherwise and since then, that's become another one of my "DDR confirmation" thingies. It still doesn't necessarily mean anything, since we don't know what that mark is for, but it's almost always there on a DDR. Not always though.

[Woodbeef]

Out of all the recent Russian imports I've never seen or heard of an ex DDR marked one yet.

[OLD OUTLAW]

Out of all the recent Russian imports I've never seen or heard of an ex DDR marked one yet.

They gave them all to us.

[boomer34]

They seem to crop up on GB from time to time, but are not generally recognized. Knowing what to look for is key. That handguard serial number is the best way to start trying to verify one. Usually the pics eave a lot to be desired.

[howiebearse]

that is one fine post Ill add to it when I have more time with my photos. The above miss matched magazine has all the signs of being scrubbed at some time before re marking. It is not all that unusual that they sometimes goof on the selection of punches and whack the wrong number or get one backwards:)

[howiebearse]

that is one fine post Ill add to it when I have more time with my photos. The above miss matched magazine has all the signs of being scrubbed at some time before re marking. It is not all that unusual that they sometimes goof on the selection of punches and whack the wrong number or get one backwards:)

Here is a few of my DDR marked 1951 Tula
Mine has the usual faint stamp and the stock is dark I have had two of these and traded one off some time ago.