Bore advice...

[eazy_coop]

I am sorry if this is a redundant, and relatively newbie question. I used the search option and I couldn't find quite what I am looking for. I have a Dunham's special, purchased before I really knew anything about 91/30's. It is a 1942 Izhevsk. Typical war time, rough metal work, etc. but I do enjoy it very much. I have completely disassembled it and cleaned it many times. Heck, I sometimes do a thorough cleaning even when I haven't shot it because it is fun. So anyways, here is my question/concern... no matter how hard/long I clean my bore, patches have NEVER come out clean. There are always grayish-green marks on the last patch. Maybe I should add that this was my first gun and am relatively new to firearms. I have used dozens and dozens and dozens of patches, at least 2 oz. of Hoppe's 9, Ballistol, a copper .30 cal brush, a .30 cal bore snake. And I hit this thing for 30 minutes at a time. Once I watched 2 episodes of X-Files while I brushed and brushed. After a heavy brushing session, there is still filth! So between cleanings, I lightly oil the bore until I have time to hit it again. When I look at the bore with a light, it is relatively shiny and bright. The grooves are visible and don't seem too well worn, although I don't have much to compare it to. Despite this, it shoots quite well though, a little high. So, finally, my question... is this typical? Is it indicative of a problem? Do I just need to keep at it?? Thanks.
Coop

[Flyin Brian]

Coop... I'm no expert but I have been at this a while and I've been where you're at right now. One thing I didn't understand back then is the amount of copper jacket fouling that can get layered onto a bore. Have you tried any chemical copper fouling cleaners such as Sweets 762 or Shooters Choice or something similar? Sometimes letting it soak with Sweets for 15 minutes and then brushing will bust through the crud and really make a huge difference. Just be sure you don't leave it in there too long, because unlike Hoppes, it will etch a bore if left too long.

My current favorite copper remover is either the stuff made by Pro-Shot or the KG-12 product.

Here is the Pro-shot: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/858849 ... uid-bottle

Here is the KG-12: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/144092 ... lvent-4-oz

JB Bore paste works wonders too, it will make for some nasty patches for a while but usually cleans the krud you are having trouble with. Good Luck!!

[eazy_coop]

Copper... That makes sense given the green-gray marks. I didn't know about that at all. I will look into the products you linked. Thanks a lot for your help, it sure sounds like that is what is going on. How much does a rifle have to be fired to show this? I am relatively new to firearms but have not seen or heard of this with any of my other guns. Thanks again!

[Flyin Brian]

Heck, that's a good question. I guess it depends on how smooth the bore is and how often it is cleaned(and how it is cleaned). Some of these milsurps have pretty rough tooling marks compared to a fancy hunting rifle made in a factory. Also if the corrosive salts from the military primers caused some rust or minor pitting 50 years ago, that pitting acts just like sandpaper and grinds off the jacket material until the fouling makes the bore fairly smooth again. In other words, you may make it WORSE by cleaning it out!! LOL There's only one way to find out what the true bore looks like... get it clean and go from there.

Sweets is very good, the other two are also good. Heck I have a bit of everything, just make sure you don't mix them, clean the bore out before switching to a different chemical.

[bunkysdad]

I don't think I would worry bout it. You have done a lot of cleaning, and I certainly am no chemist or scientist, but I have often wondered if there could be a simple chemical reaction taking place between old gun barrel steel, cleaning solvents, and the cleaning brushes. I tried the Sweets and like Brian said, 15 minutes will do. Even after using the Sweets 7.62 I have still had green patches. At some point it is just best to oil it good and shoot it more.

[Junk Yard Dog]

You will never get a clean patch, I don't care if the gun is brand new, the very steel of the bore will discolor a patch. Fastest way to wear out a rifle, overclean it. Get the salt out, then take it easy on the rest, so what if a little regular fouling or copper plating stays in there? Nobody will give you ten years of KP for it, antiques, treat them gently!

[eazy_coop]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I have been paying attention to general advice of rifle cleaning that the patch should come out clean, and thought that there was still gunk that could impact performance. I will go easier on the bore and clean gently after shooting to remove corrosive salts, and I also think I will give one of the other products a try at least once at some point in the near future. Thanks again.

[Chrome Moly Vampire]

I've had good luck with JB bore paste and Hoppe's. If that won't get it out, it ain't supposed to come out. Shoot it.

[Dan4good]

mien do the same i just give a good cleaning and oil it up and i do not shoot corrosive

[WeldonHunter]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I have been paying attention to general advice of rifle cleaning that the patch should come out clean, and thought that there was still gunk that could impact performance. I will go easier on the bore and clean gently after shooting to remove corrosive salts, and I also think I will give one of the other products a try at least once at some point in the near future. Thanks again.

Welcome to the forum. This may be helpful. http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.c ... =66&t=6932

[mahduk45044]

What JYD & Bunky said. I've had both of mine out a few times and cleaned them with the same results. I figure it is a metal thing and just make sure they're safe to fire next time. Enjoy them.

On a side note, I used to do the same thing as you back in the day. I'd clean the gun just to have an excuse to handle it. I'm probably one of the few people who don't mind the cleaning process.

[millman]

Take your cleaning brush and scrub it on the outside of your rifle. (receiver, barrel, wherever). You will notice that it leaves little gold marks. It does this on the inside of your barrel as well. What is your brush made of? Bronze. What is bronze? Tin and Copper. After the rust and filth is long gone, if you keep brushing it, all that green you are seeing is your brush. Use the brush at first, and on rusty or particularly nasty bores, but give it up after a while and just use solvent and a patch. I used to scrub the hell out my rifles, until I realized all of that copper fouling was really me, wearing out my brushes.

[tjtM38]

I would avoid the use of agressive solvents on these old bores. I use Hoppes #9 only and I don't get into agressive brushing, unless I have shot a bunch of surplus ammo and the bore seems especially dirty. On my M91/30 rifles that are regular shooters, the patch never comes completely clean. Just make sure you are using proper cleaning techniques for corrosive-primed ammo and follow up with rust preventive oil. Don't worry about the "gray patches."

[lowflier]

I use an Otis pull-through: 3 passes with Ed's Red bore cleaner, then 10 pulls with a copper brush, 3 pulls with a dry patch, then repeat. I've done as few as 1 cycle, and as many as ten cycles (mostly if I've been shooting cast lead with no gas-check :-/ ). There is always some discoloration on the last patch, so I just watch for if it seems worse than usual.

[lowflier]

Interesting observation, millman. I'll have to try using a nylon brush for a while and see if patches look cleaner.

[millman]

Interesting observation, millman. I'll have to try using a nylon brush for a while and see if patches look cleaner.

I tried the nylon brushes as well. I found that they were not aggressive enough for rust, and didn't do much better on filth than a nice tight patch. YMMV . It certainly won't hurt anything.