1944 PU sniper just done the deal

[svdsniper]

Hi All

I have just done a deal on a Mosin Nagant PU sniper. Ok first a bit of background on this as i am in UK. Put together/fake nagant snipers often sell for £600-£650 over here and i have had a few arguments over this with dealers who are clearly peddling faked/parts bin rifles as originals. Ok so i saw this Mosin Nagant for sale at £400 and carried on browsing, a little voice in me is calling on me to go back for another look so i do and noticed it is fitted with the SVT-40 PU scope. So i email the seller asking the usual questions on markings etc and requesting photos, the replies come in with the answers i am wishing for but no photos to back them up. I push harder with the seller and then suddenly i get photos sent through backing up his claims. Basically the rifle is all matching numbers, the scope mount is stamped with the rifles serial number and the scope is a Yoshkar-ola 1943 factory 297 SVT model as mentioned earlier. The scopes serial number can be made out in the photos and matches the number stamped on the left barrel shank (Izhesk made rifle) as you can see from the photos the correct screw heads and elevation adjustment on the scope, scope/mount/rifle have same wear and tear etc so i think all is looking good for this to be an original non fake/non re-arsenaled rifle as there appears to be no re-arsenal markings. Anyway i have not taken delivery or seen it in the flesh yet as it was an online deal but i expect it to be transferred to my local RFD (UK version of FFL) where it will await whilst my papers for it are processed and returned to me, once i can collect and take home i can post more detailed photos if wanted but here is what i have currently. Another thing that gives me comfort is that the UK proof mark (any firearm entering into the UK civilian firearms market must pass proof) is also stamped on the left barrel shank and you will notice the impression just cuts into the scopes serial number, the impression of the UK proof mark was clearly stamped after the scope serial number judging by the way it overstamps. Do you guys think this one is the real deal?

Best regards

Svdsniper

nagant1.JPG

nagant2.JPG

[desdem12]

Welcome to the forum svdsniper. I am no expert but the scope looks real enough to me and also the mount sure looks real. Everything appears to have the right patina and looks good. I am not sure on the use of SVT scopes on these but it would seem logical to me. Nice rifle you have there.

[svdsniper]

Hi

I had researched the use of the SVT-40 scopes on Mosin Nagants and from what i read they used them as official issue once the SVT-40 had been deemed unsuitable and there was a glut of SVT-40 scopes ready to be fitted hence the fitting to the 91/30 when they reverted to the faithfull Mosin. This is what i read over on one forum and similar is mentioned on the link below:-
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... id=3469604

Best regards

Svdsniper

[Jumperwire]

Cool. That one has some interesting marks on the left side of the barrel. Just above the "7.62 Russia" are those import marks?

[svdsniper]

Hi jumperwire
Those marks you mention are UK proof marks. We don't have import marks here in UK thankfully but we do need proof marks,at least they are less obtrusive and prove an old rifle is still a strong rifle :-)

Regards
Svdsniper

[desdem12]

A very interesting article. Thanks for the post.

[Darryl]

Looks right.

Photos of these area will help determine if it is real or fake.
Top of barrel shank
Left side of barrel shank (just above the wood line)
Photo of the mount from both sides
Photo of the "stocks" cut out
Remove the mount and take a photo of the "base" that the mount connects to
Photos of the entire scope especially around the turrets (knob adjustments), and serial numbers
Photos of the turned down bolt from the rear with the bolt closed
Photos of the turned down bolt from under the bolt handle at the bend in the bolt handle. Open the bolt and take a photo of the underside at the bend)
The import mark on the receiver to show it's location

Good clear photos will always tell the truth.

I lightened up a couple of your photos and they seem interesting

Top photo clearly shows "Russian Proof Marks" high up on the barrel shank which indicates the rifle was a sniper (at least at one time). They move the marks high up to allow for the scope numbers at the wood line.

Last two show good stock cut outs and they look right.

The Scope is real and a reworked SVT-40 scope. When they discontinued using the SVT-40 because they were lousy snipers, they removed the scopes and reworked them to work on the Mosin.

All looks good...so far.

Dolk

[svdsniper]

Hi Dolk

Thanks for your input, i expect to be able to view the rifle first hand within the next two weeks but it will be at my local RFD within the next few days. My Firearms license is at my police headquarters awaiting a calliber change to allow me to collect the rifle from the RFD. I thought that things were looking good from my knowledge of these but wanted further confirmation by more specialized eyes than my own. The seller was disposing of a qty of rifles as he needed to raise some cash and this little beauty was one of them, im so glad i got in early and snapped it up. The seller says that he never really liked the ergonomics or weight and aquired it as part of a double deal with another rifle that he had high interest in. He says he has only put around 200 rounds of factory ammo through it as his primary interest is Enfields. He bought it some years ago and has used it very little so he figures to pass it on to a more loving home and recoup what he paid for it. And hence i came long. My gut feeling was that this was a good one and once i saw the photos i took the plunge as all that i could see checked out. Once i have possession of the rifle i will post more photos but this could be up to 8-10 weeks away as police firearms departments can be very slow in Blighty :-(
I asked about the barrel condition and was it bright or dull (from corrosive ammo) but the seller is firearms savvy and the barrel is reported as bright so sounds promising, of course i dont yet know if it is counter bored but as there appear to be no re-arsenal markings i am confident that it is not counter bored. So from the photos that i have supplied so far is this looking to be an as issued rifle?
I have emailed Izhmash with the rifles details, serial numbers etc in the hope that they could shed some light on its history such as who it was issued to, what unit was the sniper from and where did he ply his trade etc. Its a bit of a long shot but i remain hopefull that they have access to the records still (assuming there are any).

Best regards

Svdsniper

[Sgt. Rob]

Nice! Great find and I look forward to your posting up some more pics when you do finally have her in hand!

Semper Fi, Rob

[svdsniper]

Hi Sgt.Rob

Thanks, i am looking forward to welcoming her to her new home :-)
I will certainly post further more detailed photos once she is in hand.
Does anyone have a photo of the bolt handle bend underside of a genuine sniper bolt so that i can immediatly compare with mine once i get to view it?

Best regards

Svdsniper

[Tula Neil]

Welcome to the forum from another Brit,
Nice looking rifle..

I have looked at the pictures, and I see West German proof marks 2xstamps one looks like a shield with 3KK (meaning March 1999) German proof. I have 2 M/N's with similar marks. (Mellrichstadt Proof House) these marks are above the UK proof marks. Good deal means may not have been messed with..

Saw this advertised last week and thought it was a cheap price for a sniper..

Anyway hope it turns out to be original for you and a good shooter.

Where abouts in the UK are you..

[svdsniper]

Hi Tula Neil

I am on the south coast, where are you located?
Interesting if those are German proof marks, i am interested to try to find out how this rifle made its way to U.K If it turns out as i suspect to be all original and non re-arsenalled etc then one would assume its possible it was a battle field pick up, taken from surrendered soldier etc or maybe kept in arsenal as is after the war and being sold off at some later date.
Its a well priced rifle no matter what.

Bestregards

Svdsniper

[Tula Neil]

Hi svdsniper..

Ah South Coast,
I'm in the South East not far from London...

When I got my first M/N with the German proofs I did some research and found mid 1990's a former state of Russia started selling Mosins to German dealers. These rifles were then proofed (European Law in some Countries) and sold on. Some of the rifles would be sold to UK dealers (bulk buy) shipped over some reproofed with UK proofs (mine are not UK stamped) then sold to shooters like you and me...
Why some were UK proofed and others not, I could not find any info.

What ranges do you use Bisley ? or out to sea South Coast ?

[Rongo]

Looks like you found a good one.

[svdsniper]

Hi Tula Neil

I am in Hampshire but not out to sea, i have shot at Bisley and i attend the Phoenix each year to hunt for gun parts/bargains etc. Interesting to hear of the German proofs connection. I am hopefull that Izhmash can turn up some records but its a bit of a long shot (no pun intended ).


Rongoman

Thanks, she looks nice in the photos, still awaiting confirmation of the successful transfer so that i can have a look over her.

Best regards

Svdsniper

[Tula Neil]

Hi svdsniper.

I will be at the Phoenix on the Saturday hunting for reloading items, already ordered 54r --7.5x55--303 bullets to collect on the day. Brass and Powder also on the list...

[Junk Yard Dog]

Welcome to the forum, nice find

[svdsniper]

Hi Tula Neil

Is the brass,heads etc from the Dutch guy? who do you find gives the best prices usually? i will lkely pop up on sat or sun looking around for heads, powder etc and accessories.
The rifle is not confirmed as safe and well at my local RFD so i hope to try to make an excuse to the wife to "pop out for some milk" lol and have a look over it in the shop, not sure when i will get this chance though. As soon as my FAC is back and i get it home i will post more photos. So far from the replies here it sounds like i was right and this could well turn out to be all original, well i hope so.

Best regards

Svdsniper

[Tula Neil]

Hi svdsniper.

The Dutch guy is only the man for .303 .311dia FMJ bullets. I dont have a main dealer/s for my stuff I look for who has the best selection at a good price. I'm happy using once fired then I re F/L size. Your rifle with be shipped via TNT so it can take a week to arrive, has to be on a secure transport, my last transfer took 10 days, and dont try to order powder thats now a nightmare to ship...

Last time I popped out for milk brought back a Tula M38, wife said thats a funny looking pint of milk..
Hope it turns out to be all original and correct....
Regards.
Tula Neil

[svdsniper]

Hi all

Ok the rifle is now confirmed as at my local dealers, but i have nt had the time to drive the 15 miles to see it first hand. I do plan to do this on the comming saturday and may be able to get some extra photos on my mobile if the dealer does not mind this. I just wanted to ask what i should expect to see when looking at the underside of the bolt bend area?
I will try to get better photos of the markings and scope turret area as well as the other side of the scope mount :-)

regards

svdsniper