How Do I Console My Friend? (Poor Quality Mosin)

[Ratgeyser]

I bought my 1943 Izhevsk from my friend, and then I seriously started geeking out about these guns. Bought the history books and such and spent 60+ hours researching them online. Learned how to read the markings on a spam can. Heaven help me. I took my nerd-rage to the local gun store and picked up a good-quality factory-matched 1940 Tula for $99 and an excellent factory-matched 1928 Izhevsk for $149. (Local gunshop keeps 10-20 out on a rack for the handling, and all they care about is an extra $50 if it has a hex receiver.)

So my friend gets jealous of me having all this fun and getting these fantastic Mosins, so he orders one online from Century. It came today.

I... what do I tell my friend?

• The butt is cracked.
• It's a highwall Izhevsk with the "war years" crappy machining and the markings are so bad I can't make out the year.
• Serial numbers do not match. Not even an attempt to refurb them or force match and restamp them.
• I pop it apart and look at the tang marking, STILL can't make out the year. I *think* it might be a 1944. Maybe.
• Came with a bayonet, that's cool. Huh. It has two serials but they're superimposed so not sure what to make of it.
• Check the bore. Lands are rounded REAL bad, and the grooves are pitted even worse.
• "That's funny," I say. "Usually when they're this worn you can see an egg-shape in the end of the barrel where the cleaning rod rubbed--" Oh my head. It's been counterbored.

So, at this point I'm basically thinking "you win some, you lose some, and boy oh boy did you just lose some."

But... I've only ever handled 4 Mosins. Is this gun really that bad? Do I tell my friend he needs to get a gunsmith to check it before we even dare put a round through it? I *think* the serials match on the bolt and breech but at this point I'm terrified of the headspace on that thing. Or... am I overreacting? Have I been pampered by high-quality Mosins and this one is just average?

What's the definition of a "poor" quality Mosin? My friend bought from Century and they have "fair", "good" and "very good" Mosins; they claimed this was a "very good" Mosin. They ALSO clamed my 1943 Izhevsk was a "very good", and while it's a re-arsenal it is definitely rock-solid shooter.

So.... what do you guys think? Is this gun probably fine, or not even worth cleaning? Did my friend by a "probably okay" gun or a $99 sack of parts? What about the history value? Should this one be treated with more reverence since it's literally had a ton of history piled up in it? (My friend is a shooter/sporter, so if you think this is a valid historical piece but a poor shooter, let me know so I can take it away from him.)

--Dave

[Izhevsk762]

Post some pics. Is the butt cracked, or does it have the typical toe splice?

Also, some mosins with terrible bores will still shoot halfway OK.

[Ratgeyser]

Will do; I'll dig out the camera tomorrow after work.

[bunkysdad]

Dave, almost every description you give of this gun leaves me begging for pictures. What you are describing makes me want it and I have not seen it. The 2 digit serial number sounds good, and whether the number can be read may or may not be bad. If it has been abused on this side of the ocean, that's bad. If it has seen a lot of battle and shows it, to me that is good. A cracked stock is hard to say without seeing it. If it is a wartime expedient receiver, the roughness of the exterior "is" the correct condition, and shows it's history at a dark time in Russian history where the Germans were close to successful at anhialating them. So if it shoots good, then for 99 bucks what the hey? He got a good gun and he needs no consoling from such an experienced Mosin friend. Compliment his rifle, show him how to find a pretty one when he buys # 2, and take him to the range for a great day of two buddies shooting WWII relics, and buy him some lunch.

ps~ by the way, your 3 91/30's sound nice, and you got some good deals for sure.

[Rongo]

I gotta see this one! First is to ensure it is in good working condition by checking headspace, full disassembly & thorough inspection. Next is to clean that nasty bore to see what's underneath. As far as not matching goes, not a big deal if you plan to just use it as a shooter.

Post some pictures... We would love to see it.

[MN Fan]

Hi Dave,

I agree with the others...I am very interested in seeing photos of this one. It sounds to me like this one has been around, and that could be a very cool thing.

In my opinion, these old rifles don't have to be accurate shooters to be collectible. Who knows, his may shoot just fine, but that's not the point. If the rifle can tell its story just by looking at it and holding it...well, that's the part I love

[Junk Yard Dog]

Wow, that sounds like a real piece of history that has been to see the elephant time after time. Cool, all you described is what can be expected from a MIlsurp of this age that has seen war . The only time you should be surprised is when you don't see cracks and wear in a millsurp. Check the headspace, and range test the rifle. The counterbore is a plus, it's correcting a crown wear issue, this rifle may well shoot fine, if not it should still be treasured as a piece of real history. The refurbished Mosins with their pretty shellac, and polished parts have everyone spoiled, that is not what a milsurp actually looke like after it's last field service, and most country's do not refurbish their old rifles before selling them as scrap or surplus. Tell your friend he is off to a great start.
This is what a real issued Mosin milsurp looks like, in this case a 1943 M38, note the worn off shellac, you can't see the stock repairs but they are there

Look at this 1942 Izhevsk M91/30, this is an issued and unrefurbished Mosin, this is what milsurps looked like before the Ukrainian hoard, this is what all the refurbed rifles looked like before being refurbished






Here is another, 1936 Izhevsk


1935 Izhevsk

[TopperT]

VERY nice, interesting repair on the stock. The wartime machine tooling work is a dead give-a-way to just how desperate the time was. They must have been working their butts off to supply the 'front'. You have a wonderful rifle there.

[Junk Yard Dog]

1942 was a dark year for the USSR, they were giving up ground on every front except one, Stalingrad, and they were hanging by a thread there. The push was on to supply the front, for all it's appearance the rifle has a good bore, and is a fair to middlin' shooter. These issued rifles are full of stock repairs, field done by the look of them. Some of the rifles have as many as eight repairs in one stock.

[desdem12]

The more used it looks the more history and beauty it has. Not saying those pretty refurbs aren't nice too. Sounds like he got lucky to me

[Junk Yard Dog]

Nice one

[Darryl]

You don't console your friend.

If it turns out all the stuff is "bad" (photos will show) it is the chance or "luck of the draw" when you buy a rifle without seeing it first. Most of these places will take a rifle back or exchange it for you.

Hard to tell anything until we see photos. What you call "screwed up" and not pretty, sometimes is a collectors dream.

Dolk

[Ratgeyser]

Thanks for the replies, all--will definitely de-snot it and post pics tonight after work. This one is in better condition than most of the ones posted here. For example, the split in the stock is varnished over, and the stock is all in one piece--it wasn't re-cut and field-repaired like Junk Yard Dog's 1936 up there. Glad to know this one is definitely worth investigating!

As I said, my friend is definitely a shooter/sporter, so we'll safety test it and then range test it, and if the counterbore was a butcher job instead of a genius repair, I'll make sure the gun gets into respectful hands. I'll take him down to the gun shop where I got my '40 and my '28, where we can inspect them in advance, and he can get a "pretty" one.

[desdem12]

Take him over to that cabellas in lehi and look over the pile they have. Last time i was there they had at lest 5-8 just sitting in the racks, a good mixture too. They probably get theirs from the same place like century anyway. Check the bores and also check the crown to see if the rifling goes all the way out or is worn at the end. If it is counterbored then that is probably a good thing. Take those babies out and have fun. I will say that but i do have a few that i have personaly not shot but i have maybe just a couple over 3...maybe

[Ratgeyser]

Take him over to that cabellas in lehi and look over the pile they have.

Last time I was there they only had one out in the rack, and all the rest were "Cracker Jack" boxes, but they want $149 for them sight-unseen. There's a local shop in Orem (30 minutes south of Cabela's) called Gunnies, however, that has a Mosin Nagant SECTION. They keep 15-20 guns out at all times, and they're either $99 or $149 depending on whether they have a hex receiver. Last week every gun I checked was factory match WITH matching bayo. I wanted to take the whole rack home, make a big pile and sleep on them. That's not crazy is it? I SAID THATS NOT CRAZY IS IT!!!

[desdem12]

Man i have seen that shop many times and have wanted to go to it. I will definately hit it next time i am there. Right on state isn't it? A mosin section is just what i need.

[Ratgeyser]

Man i have seen that shop many times and have wanted to go to it. I will definately hit it next time i am there. Right on state isn't it? A mosin section is just what i need.

NO IT'S IN ARIZONA YOU STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM MY MOSINS

brb, medication time. oh, that's better. Yes, it's right on the corner of 400 S and State in Orem. You should go in there and buy some, that way they will put out new ones!

[desdem12]

Not sure when the next time i will be there so you are safe...FOR NOW. Gas is too high at the moment to be runnin around spending mosin money on I can't believe that they won't let you go through some of the boxes at cabellas. I would never just buy the one they handed me and courtisy should rule if they want to sell guns.

[Simo]

AWE COME ON JYD!, as if I don't have enough to deal with. Now I got to find an un-refurbed M38.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Notice also that the M38 is in one of the earlier stocks