M91 New England Westinghouse with no import marks

[Jimbo]

I found this M91 in my father and grandfathers' things. They had a ranch in Wyoming and went to a lot of auctions in the 1940s through the 1970s. They loved to buy old guns.
They both passed in the 1970s and most of the stuff went into the barn and then in storage buildings. I went into the military in the 1960s and stayed.
I didn't get involved with this stuff until my mom passed a couple years ago.
I have been reading on this forum and other places on the net and it seems that this rifle is one that never left the U.S. The condition is really nice.
I don't think that it could have ever been in action.
I think that all the #s match.
The only thing that i see is that someone tried to start sporterizing the stock and then at some time changed their mind and repaired it.
Thanks to all the help from you guys, I get to show you some pictures.
Please give me comments on what you think I have.

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[Rongo]

Other than the stock looking like it got stripped down it looks great.

[Darryl]

The second (large) photo is the "money shot". That shows a Westinghouse that has not had the Eagle stamped on the hex receiver on the top.

This also does not look like a cutdown to carbine length or a full length Banerman surplus rifle.
Bannerman sold what was left of the Westinghouses and Remingtons as either full sized or "cut down and sportserized".
Those rifles were converted to 30-06 cal.
Bannerman rifles (Knoledgebase)

This Looks like a surplus Westinghouse that was never marked with the Russian eagle so, the Russians never had it??

So, maybe a Surplus rifle that never made it to the Russians??

Darryl

[Jimbo]

overall length = 51 1/2".. length of stock = 47 1/4".. cleaning rod = 29"..hand guard wood= 17 3/8"
I have shot 7.62x54r through it. I dont think it is 30-06.
Thanks for all the help with the pics.

Jimbo

[Darryl]

It's not a 30-06. The barrel shank is not shortened and it is not marked as a 30-06.
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Darryl

[Jimbo]

I got my computer back today.
Oh I see how your 30-06 mark will look. Nope. not on this one.
Can you tell me what the mark is above the new England Westinghouse on the barrel ? It looks like a tree or something.
Jimbo

[steelbuttplate]

Thats the Russian Imperial Eagle, I think Russian inspectors were in the US , and some rifles were stamped by them but never sent , Russia broke off the contract for them.

[willyj73]

U.S. surcharged Westinghouse. I do not know the history of these rifles, although I do have the book that would explain some of it (Clawson's book).
It's hard to tell if the stock's finish was messed with. Looks like it in the first photo; however, subsequent photos look OK. Some of the walnut stocks were lighter in color. New England Westinghouse M91's did not have the Imperial Eagle on the receiver. Only the barrel has the eagle, and your barrel has the Eagle. The other eagles are U.S. government marks. I think this indicates the rifle was one of the ones bought by U.S. government to help alleviate the loss from Russia defaulting on their contract.
I cannot see where the rifle was sporterized.
These rifles, in very good to excellent condition, have sold as high as $5k. That doesn't mean your rifle would sell for $5k. But, it is a very desirable rifle nonetheless.

[steelbuttplate]

U.S. surcharged Westinghouse. I do not know the history of these rifles, although I do have the book that would explain some of it (Clawson's book).
It's hard to tell if the stock's finish was messed with. Looks like it in the first photo; however, subsequent photos look OK. Some of the walnut stocks were lighter in color. New England Westinghouse M91's did not have the Imperial Eagle on the receiver. Only the barrel has the eagle, and your barrel has the Eagle. The other eagles are U.S. government marks. I think this indicates the rifle was one of the ones bought by U.S. government to help alleviate the loss from Russia defaulting on their contract.
I cannot see where the rifle was sporterized.
These rifles, in very good to excellent condition, have sold as high as $5k. That doesn't mean your rifle would sell for $5k. But, it is a very desirable rifle nonetheless.

I just noticed the flaming bomb, left side of chamber. That means it was assigned to the US military doesn't it ?

[Darryl]

Thats the Russian Imperial Eagle, I think Russian inspectors were in the US , and some rifles were stamped by them but never sent , Russia broke off the contract for them.

[Darryl]

Thats the Russian Imperial Eagle, I think Russian inspectors were in the US , and some rifles were stamped by them but never sent , Russia broke off the contract for them.

OK, there were never Russian inspectors here in the USA.

Westinghouse and Remington had a contract to make M91 Mosins for the Russian Goverment. Russia needed more arms (WWI) and could not make enough rifles for themselves. The rifles were marked with a version of the Russian eagle by the two factories.

Problem came when Russia decided they didn't need more rifle. Russia backed out of the contract with Westinghouse and Remington leaving a LOT of M91 rifles here in their plants. Enough to possibly bankrupt the two companies. The contract was also approved and backed by US government. Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with a lot of M91 Mosin model rifles -- so, the US government Purchase these "left over" rifles to help keep the two companies from going under.

These rifle were taken to the Springfield arsenal by the US military and inspected. The "Springfield eagle" was placed all over these rifles.

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The rifle above was one of these rifles. You can tell this by the Springfield eagle under it's serial number. So it was property of the US Government.

The US military used SOME of these for a few years for drilling and target practice. Some were used for a special operation (which I won't get into because it has nothing to do with this rifle). Because they really didn't want these rifles, many were never used and "new". After a few years these rifle were put up for sale as "surplus". The majority of these rifles were never touched or used.

Bannerman (a surplus vendor) purchased these rifle. They purchased surplus and re-purposed these items were sold to the US public. All kinds of stuff, not just these rifles.

Some of them were sold to the public in the 7.62 x 54r cal format. They were not popular as that cal was not popular in the USA and ammo was harder to find. So, Bannerman took the balance and cut down the barrel shank and reamed it out to 30-06. They are marked on the left side 30-06 and you can see the shorter barrel shank. 30-06 was a very popular hunting round at that time.

Some of the 30-06 versions were sold full length. But the length was not very popular either.

The balance had the barrel length cut down and a new front site put on. There were maybe 2 or 3 different sites used at the time. These shortened Mosins were very popular with hunters.

As they were never really used in the military, they are not considered "sportsterized".

Some of these are "like new" (like the rifle above) and probably not used much. Others were used "hard" as hunting rifles.

The above rifle posted by the original poster was a Westinghouse that was sold to the US military and never made it to Russia. Then purchased by Bannerman (probably) and resold to the public.
Bannerman rifles are very hard to find.


Here is my Bannerman carbine. It was altered on the stock for a butt pad.
This is a common alteration as they kick like HELL.
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There is a Remington rifle (in our "Show Case")
https://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=18136
It was sold to Bannerman and probably was never used then sold full length but cut down to 30-06.


Bannerman rifles are very hard to find and considered a Mosin variant. Even though they were never used (much) as a military rifle.

I love mine and it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. Louder then Hell and kicks like a mule. It is very close to my Enfield MK 5 "jungle carbine" in 303 cal. in kick and loudness.

Darryl

[steelbuttplate]

Does the flaming bomb mean it was US Army, or could it have been Home Guard or something else.

[Darryl]

Does the flaming bomb mean it was US Army, or could it have been Home Guard or something else.

It went from the plant (Remington or Westinghouse) to the US Military arsenal in Springfield and then to the military for use. Then sold off to Bannerman.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for all the help. Sorry I was gone so long I got sick again. Looks like I,ll be getting rid of my stuff. Can you suggest the best way to sell this rifle.

[millman]

Thanks for all the help. Sorry I was gone so long I got sick again. Looks like I,ll be getting rid of my stuff. Can you suggest the best way to sell this rifle.

I would list it here and/or on one of the other forums. I have no experience with gunbroker or any of the other auction sites, so I couldn't say about them. Just don't take it to a gun/pawn shop. They will screw you on the price. That is a quite desirable rifle.