New user, new PU authenticity check :)

[James84]

Hi all,

New user here and like others, I am so glad I found this forum. I've been reading and reading about how to spot a 'fake' sniper from a real one but I'm still not 100% 'in the know' on it. I have seen two rifles, both pretty similar that appear to be 'genuine' snipers but I'm not sure if they have been refinished by an amateur, or by an arsenal...

Both are Izvhesk, one is 1943 and the other is 1944. As the pictures of the 1943 one online aren't great, I'll start by asking about the 44 one, as it has pretty high quality images. Here are my thoughts (again, I am new to this so I'm just stating what I can see based on what I've read).

- Appears to show all the correct marks. I can see the 'C' stamp on the receiver and although the image is top down, the serial number on the barrel shank can be seen as is the correct number of digits to match the scope's serial
- The rear sight has been scrubbed down to the white, which I have read was done during a refurb on PU snipers by another nation who used them (I cannot remember which, perhaps Poland or Yugoslavia?) but images I have seen of others are scrubbed right up beyond the 2000 mark
- The serial for the rifle and scope make me think it is original to the rifle. I say this because the I found a list of Mosin snipers on GB and the nb serial for several others seem to be in a similar range and the rifle and scope serial are in the same range as other matched rifle. The closest other rifle was - nb 2539 (PU, 1944, scope 4429245)
- As there is no serial etched onto the mount, I am guessing that the scope is original to the rifle and given the proximity to the rifle and scope serials on the point above, it leads me to believe it is so
- My only concern is that I've read on this forum that the bolt and magazine should have the letter prexfix on them, otherwise this could indicate a force match. This rifle does not have that, but from what I can see it is the only thing that doesn't tie up

If anyone has any thoughts on it, what has been done (has it been butchered in terms of collector value) to it and if it is worth looking at I'd really appreciate the help.

Thank you in advance for your help!

[Darryl]

Need to see better photos of
Barrel shank (top and left side)
Import marks are critical
Scope markings
back of scope mount.
The images you supplied are nice to "look at" but do not show much info.

Darryl

[James84]

Unfortunately it is in an auction so I can't get any additional images, and it is in Europe so no import marks. I was hoping someone could say if it has clearly been refinished from these pictures or if it is an original in very good condition

[qz2026]

It's hard to say anything about this. To me the stock looks sanded. The metal looks refinished. I see no markings on the scope. The cutouts for the mount look new. The shank information is not visible nor any of the serial numbers. Is it a bubba? Chances are better than 50% in my book. I'd run from this one.

[tomaustin]

WHAT IS THE AUCTION PRICE RANGE...?

[Darryl]

I'd pass if that is all they give you. There are others out there. This might be to big of a risk.

Darryl

[James84]

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to pass on it.

Auction estimate was $700 - $800 but this auction notoriously puts low estimates to entice bidders.

You can see the serial numbers in the top down pic and it fits within the range of a sniper and you can see that there is a scope number on the shank but cannot see what it is, unfortunately.

Thanks again for the help everyone. 'real' PU snipers are a rarity where I'm located so this one was tempting but I the sanded stock alone puts me off this one.

[willyj73]

I'm likely late to the show on this. The photos were of high enough resolution that I was able to zoom in and see stuff. Mount and scope are real. Mount looks like it may have the Izhvesk triangle/arrow marking. Prefix of the serial number on the rifle falls in the range of a sniper rifle for 1944 Izhevsk (according to Alex's site). The side of the barrel looks like it may have numbers on it, but I cannot tell for sure. Rear sight looks like it has some of the bluing removed. I'd say the photo was enhanced some to make the bluing look nice. Stock is refinished (or, at least, has the original finish removed and is lightly sanded). Scope mount cut out doesn't look good. Here is a link with info. If you look about halfway down the page, you will see serial number prefixes for PU sniper rifles for given year/factory. https://www.m9130.info/pu-snipers

[James84]

Thanks again for the input. The auction house did provide additional images, so if anyone has any thoughts after seeing these, I would appreaciate the feedback

[Darryl]

Images don't show enough.
https://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/ ... 36&t=26581

Darryl

[SA1911a1]

Without more information I would figure that it was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhWR4d3FJQ

[Miller Tyme]

Ok the bad 1st, as stated the pics they are giving you are not very good.

Now the good, barreled action appears to be legit, the scope mount is legit and looks to be an izhevsk by the tooling marks on the backside. The scope is an original, just not original to this rifle.

Now the possibly good but not sure 100%.....the stock has been sanded, but I do not believe it was by bubba, but rather by the Poles or Yugo's. I base this on the color of the finish on the stock, the deep bluing on the action, and this......

20221124_183428.jpg

That sight looks to be " in the white", something both the Yugos & Poles both did.

Is it import marked? that might help to determine if it is 100% legit , and if so who refurbed it.

[James84]

Unfortunately it isn't import marked as it is in Europe, so never entered the US

[Miller Tyme]

Unfortunately it isn't import marked as it is in Europe, so never entered the US

So I assume you are not trying to aquire this rifle?

[Miller Tyme]

Dbl tap

[James84]

Unfortunately it isn't import marked as it is in Europe, so never entered the US

So I assume you are not trying to aquire this rifle?

I am interested in acquiring it. I am based in Europe.

[tomaustin]

your permanent home..? or, do you have to deal with bringing it back to the US.....................

[Miller Tyme]

Unfortunately it isn't import marked as it is in Europe, so never entered the US

So I assume you are not trying to aquire this rifle?

I am interested in acquiring it. I am based in Europe.

Ok, is this auction close by? Sometimes Auction Houses have previews a few days before for in person viewing. If so and if they allow try getting some better pics of the rifle, especially the barrel shank and both sides of the butt stock.