8mm mauser, any brand or load to stay away from in M38 Turkish?

[matt167]

I know that 8mm Mauser is usually pretty available except right now. There is some greek surplus floating around that I think is too cheap to trust, but otherwise small sellers and secondary market otherwise. I have found some Federal 170 grain that is about as cheap as I think I'll find at $40 per box. Is that a safe round for an old Mauser? I have an M38 Turkish Mauser that was made in 1944

[Junk Yard Dog]

I am told that the Turk Mauser rounds were a bit on the hot side. I never checked this myself, but I did buy something around 15,000 rounds of it back in the day when it was dirt cheap, literally a few cents or less per round bought in bulk. I didn't use it in the Hakim, or SAFN49 semi autos because I had their gas systems regulated for the Persian 8mm I also had a good supply of at the time. I did use it in at least 20 Turkish " Mauser's" that ranged from converted GEW88's, and rifles using 1893 small ring receivers, German and Czech 98 receivers, and the receivers the Turks made themselves on the BRNO equipment with no problems. These days it's harder to find the Turk ammo unless you look in my ammo bunker, and it's much more expensive. If you are worried about pressure you can go with US commercial loads, they are all loaded low because the manufacturers worry it will end up in Commission 88's, plus you end up with reloadable brass. One warning with any surplus rifle, but most especially the Turkish Mauser's, CHECK THE HEADSPACE WITH THE NO-GO GAUGE. I can't stress the importance of that enough with these rifles due to the fact that at least 80% of my Turk Mauser's had loose headspace when I checked them. I rectified this issue by swapping bolt bodys around ( only one ever had a matching number bolt anyway) until I got the rifle to pass headspace. Even then a few never passed, and I never fired them, not a huge issue back when these rifles were $45. Go to Midway USA< or Brownells, even eBay and buy at least the No-Go headspace gauge, best $45 or less investment you will make. Technically the field gauge would be considered a pass at maximum safe headspace, but I always preferred the No-Go as I only have one face, and it's just a surplus rifle, not life and death need to fire it. If the rifle passes the test then worry about the ammo, and do the test yourself, it's easy, do not take anyone else word for it, including dealers. The gauge doesn't make the rifle safe in every other way, but it does let you know that one critical measurement that if bad enough out of spec could kill you.

[Junk Yard Dog]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007058465?pid=572377

[matt167]

Thanks. Headspace had crossed my mind but I didn't know really since this is my first Mauser. I don't really expect to shoot it much, but I would like one that can. I suspect that they probably did check it, but I'll buy the gauge myself.. I have a couple thousand rounds of 7.62x54R commercial and surplus if I really want a range day with a Milsurp, I'll take a Mosin, or my SKS as I have more than enough x39 as well

I ordered the gauge

Are there gauges for 6.5 Carcano available? I've deemed the one I got, better than a wall hanger. It's functioning with a decent bore and the metal has cleaned up pretty nice

[qz2026]

The Turk ammo is hot. Most of the surplus that came into this country from them was machine gun ammo. But, the action on the Turk Mauser will handle it just fine. Beware, by this I mean a "Mauser Action". With a Gew88 conversion with the new 8mm barrel, I wouldn't trust that action with Turk ammo. Loaded down hand loads and US commercial 8mm ammo would be fine even PRVI if you can find it.

I don't think that I was able to find a headspace gauge for 6.5 Carcano. If anyone has them, Forster Products would. If not, if you gave them the specs, they would make one for you. They made one for me in 7.65 Argentine.

[matt167]

What would a GEW88 conversion be? This rifle is stamped 1944 and as far as I know, it's an M38 although the gun shop listed it as a 1903

[millman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AunvMjcJPHY

[qz2026]

What would a GEW88 conversion be? This rifle is stamped 1944 and as far as I know, it's an M38 although the gun shop listed it as a 1903

The 1903 was among the myriad of conversions the Turks did. These conversions are all considered by collectors to be Model of 1938's. The Gew88 conversions did basically the same thing but with a much older rifle.. But, as you can see from this one, it has a 1938 dated barrel. These are just about my favorite Turks. This one is a tack driver... One of two Turks I kept when I sold my collection.

1 - ID Turkey Gew88 Conversion 1938 Ankara sn 6846 C&amp;R.jpg

[matt167]

So it's basically as I thought it was, mechanically and functionally a Gew 98?

I was looking at the Federal ammunition, so I should be good as long as it head spaces

[qz2026]

So it's basically as I thought it was, mechanically and functionally a Gew 98?

I was looking at the Federal ammunition, so I should be good as long as it head spaces

They were Gew98's and Model 98's with new barrels. As long as head space passes, you can shoot just about any 8mm ammo out of it.

[Junk Yard Dog]

So it's basically as I thought it was, mechanically and functionally a Gew 98?

I was looking at the Federal ammunition, so I should be good as long as it head spaces

They were Gew98's and Model 98's with new barrels. As long as head space passes, you can shoot just about any 8mm ammo out of it.

Some of these were made using German 98 receivers, later on the Turks made their own receivers on machinery they bought from BRNO. These would be the K Kale marked ones, by that point the entire rifle was being made from new parts, no more rebuilt using mixed new and used parts. The so called pattern 1938 rifles are a mix of GEW98 and 1893 Mauser. Long like the 98, stock like the 93, bayonet from the '93. They are a good example of how desperation forces ingenuity. Cut off from their German suppliers after the Great War, and with BRNO unable to meet their arms needs Turkey was in dire straights when it came to small arms. The war took a heavy toll on existing rifles, they were worn out . They started making replacement parts to fix these worn out rifles, then started just using what parts they had to assemble rifles to a particular common pattern. It was the receivers that they couldn't make until later when BRNO sent them the tooling and taught them to use it. This is why you see these rifles built on every receiver from any rifle that found it's way to Turkey. Enfield, Mosin, Berthier, Mauser, commission 88 all were used producing some very unusual looking rifles. Once they could make 98 Mauser receivers all that stopped, later on they did also make some short rifles. I was communicating with a Turkish customer of mine who had served at the Ankara arsenal during his military service some years ago. He knew these rifles well, they were still a common sight in the late 1970's. He had never heard of them being called the 1938, or anything other than Mauser's.

[matt167]

So this one is marked Ankara K Kale 1944. That makes this one " new " in 1944 then?

I do question the stock however.. ALL of the metal is perfect, BUT the stock has basically no finish although the color is pretty much what I would expect. It's fairly 'rough' but good condition wood. It's not cracked

[qz2026]

So this one is marked Ankara K Kale 1944. That makes this one " new " in 1944 then?

I do question the stock however.. ALL of the metal is perfect, BUT the stock has basically no finish although the color is pretty much what I would expect. It's fairly 'rough' but good condition wood. It's not cracked

Your rifle was built using a new 8mm barrel on an older Model or Gew 98 receiver. It is not a new rifle. It was a reconditioned rifle in 1944 and built to the Turk specifications at the time. The stock was either reconditioned to Turk specifications or new (at the time). This is quite similar to what the Finns did with captured or purchased Russian rifles. Stock condition revolves around use. These rifles were used heavily.

[Junk Yard Dog]

So this one is marked Ankara K Kale 1944. That makes this one " new " in 1944 then?

I do question the stock however.. ALL of the metal is perfect, BUT the stock has basically no finish although the color is pretty much what I would expect. It's fairly 'rough' but good condition wood. It's not cracked

The receiver is made in Turkey on the BRNO equipment. It is still possible at that time to find reused older German or Czech 98 receivers as the Turks, like the Soviets, never tossed out a receiver that was still usable. All of my K Kale 40's date Turks are using all Turk parts and would have been made as new rifles in 1941-1945, '45 being the latest date I have, and '41 the oldest K Kale . The last rifle I have that I can identify the receiver as being definitely German due to remaining small stamps is dated 1938. It differs from the K Kale marked rifles only in the markings.

[matt167]

Appears to be no 'ghost stamping' or signs of a re used receiver so at this point I think it was 'new' in 1944. Also, will the Gew 98 bolt bodies that Liberty Tree has be what I need if it does not head space?

[Junk Yard Dog]

Appears to be no 'ghost stamping' or signs of a re used receiver so at this point I think it was 'new' in 1944. Also, will the Gew 98 bolt bodies that Liberty Tree has be what I need if it does not head space?

Because this is the standard Mauser 98 action they will fit. What will not fit, and are harder to find anyway, are the bolts for the so called 1903 action. These were actions used for the 7.65mm rifles Turkey adopted after the 1893 Mausers, and are a hair shorter than standard 98. Forget about them as no K Kale uses them. Remember also that a bolt swap may not help headspace issues. I got it done because I could swap between 15 rifles, and numerous spare 98 bolts, and still one didn't headspace no matter what I swapped into it. Various reasons for the headspace issues, all or none could be true. Most Turk Mauser's do not have the matching bolts they left the arsenal with when new, who knows why. Hotter than standard spec ammo used for decades, slightly softer steel used in the Turk made receivers, no Krup, or Swedish steel here, Gauges used by the Turks may not have been US SAMMI spec. Who knows, not all Turk Mauser's fail the No-Go, some Turk Mauser's do have matching bolts, I have one that does. No idea if anyone ever tested the actual hardness of a Turk made receiver, to my knowledge no government ever deliberately gives it's own troops crap weapons. It has been known to happen due to ignorance or inexperience, or even due to the pressures of war. I don't recall any story's of these rifles blowing up, not even the 88's, but with the stupid shit some reloaders do it's possible.

[matt167]

The head space gauge should be here on Monday so I'll check it then

[WeldonHunter]

I know that 8mm Mauser is usually pretty available except right now. There is some greek surplus floating around that I think is too cheap to trust, but otherwise small sellers and secondary market otherwise. I have found some Federal 170 grain that is about as cheap as I think I'll find at $40 per box. Is that a safe round for an old Mauser? I have an M38 Turkish Mauser that was made in 1944

SGAmmo has Greek ammo and though it's a bit older than some of what used to be available it should still be good to go. There's a lot of other surplus available here: https://gun-deals.com/list/ammo/8mm+Mauser
Keep in mind all what's listed right now is corrosively primed surplus so clean accordingly.

[matt167]

SG will not ship to my state for any reason, even to an FFL. My usual 2 places that will ship to my door are out of stock.. JG sales will ship to an FFL and they list some German surplus

[Junk Yard Dog]

Check Joe's list here in the boards for sale section, I know he has some German stuff, and Greek
https://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/ ... 28&t=20615

I have bought from him many times, great to deal with.