Last day to comment on ATF proposal for pistol braces

[willyj73]

Today is the final day for comments on the ATF's proposal for pistol braces. If you haven't commented, I urge you to do so. The ATF's proposal only seeks to turn more Americans into criminals, and does NOTHING to make the world a safer place to live in. The proposal looks like something that a first-year, lazy, low performing college student created for a class assignment. It will destroy the manufacturers and the associated jobs. It will cost firearm retailers millions of dollars in losses. And, it will harm all of the associated industries. From what I could find online, the braces are made in the U.S. I know the braces have been a Godsend for those of us who want a shorter firearm, but hated the stupid look/feel of the early semi-auto pistols. They've created a new market for firearms in the U.S. So, please comment. Anti gunners are commenting. We need as many Pro 2a people as possible.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ing-braces

[qz2026]

The ATF is just following the "process". They have no intention other than to ban these things. And they will. It doesn't matter if 100% of the responses were supporting these "braces". The government is communist now. And really, if I had one of these pistols ("pistol" is a laugh in itself), I'd purchase a folding stock and install it at the appropriate time. Yeah illegal as hell, but soon, it won't matter much. And you think that a huge outcry and complaining will change anything? Heck the bump stock was swept away even under a so-called conservative 2A minded president.

[steelbuttplate]

The ATF is just following the "process". They have no intention other than to ban these things. And they will. It doesn't matter if 100% of the responses were supporting these "braces". The government is communist now. And really, if I had one of these pistols ("pistol" is a laugh in itself), I'd purchase a folding stock and install it at the appropriate time. Yeah illegal as hell, but soon, it won't matter much. And you think that a huge outcry and complaining will change anything? Heck the bump stock was swept away even under a so-called conservative 2A minded president.

A bump stock or a binary trigger should make a firearm a class 3, no need to make them illegal.

[willyj73]

The ATF is just following the "process". They have no intention other than to ban these things. And they will. It doesn't matter if 100% of the responses were supporting these "braces". The government is communist now. And really, if I had one of these pistols ("pistol" is a laugh in itself), I'd purchase a folding stock and install it at the appropriate time. Yeah illegal as hell, but soon, it won't matter much. And you think that a huge outcry and complaining will change anything? Heck the bump stock was swept away even under a so-called conservative 2A minded president.

A bump stock or a binary trigger should make a firearm a class 3, no need to make them illegal.

Considering we have laws that define what a "machine gun" is, and neither one of those items falls under the definition, neither should be a class 3. I'll go a step further and state that the 1930s laws shouldn't even exist. But, they do. Regardless, do you really support agencies ignoring the definitions and making the rules up as they go?

[steelbuttplate]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

[qz2026]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

I would say the same thing for all firearms. Every firearm you have on your wall was created for one purpose... to kill as many enemy people as possible before they kill you, as you said. As long as governments have weapons and would use them on the public (they have and they will continue to), we as citizens require the same types of weapons to make the odds even. But nope... And why would that be? For our safety and protection from each other? It is likely more to enforce tyranny? I would add that "hunting and self defense" was not the reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution.

[steelbuttplate]

I agree with what you say about the second amendment, but if our own government gets after a group of us we be fighting against laws rockets and tomahawk missiles., helicopters and bombs from above. I wouldn't take my 78 Remington to war as a first choice, and I wouldn't take a .45 Thompson to a deer stand.

[WeldonHunter]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

I would say the same thing for all firearms. Every firearm you have on your wall was created for one purpose... to kill as many enemy people as possible before they kill you, as you said. As long as governments have weapons and would use them on the public (they have and they will continue to), we as citizens require the same types of weapons to make the odds even. But nope... And why would that be? For our safety and protection from each other? It is likely more to enforce tyranny? I would add that "hunting and self defense" was not the reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution.

"Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you." I read this and thought "well this is exactly why the 2nd Amendment was written" Than I saw this "I would add that "hunting and self defense" was not the reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution." and thought "Exactl!" Then I read on and saw this "but if our own government gets after a group of us we be fighting against laws rockets and tomahawk missiles., helicopters and bombs from above." and thought "So we're supposed to abandon any hope of fighting for our freedom and just roll over because the government has better tech and we've allowed it to get to this point?" The whole point is we should have whatever we need to fight against this if the government decides to use LAW rockets, Tomahawks, Helicopters and Bombs from above on it's citizens. Just because we've allowed the government to have such over reaching power over us doesn't mean we have to let them keep it and abandon the reason the Declaration of Independence was written because it might be difficult. I'll remind people that believe we can't fight the government of the recent end to a 20 year war with a mostly lightly armed enemy that ended with the Taliban owning Afghanistan. Vietnam comes to mind also. Don't give in and don't give up.

[qz2026]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

I would say the same thing for all firearms. Every firearm you have on your wall was created for one purpose... to kill as many enemy people as possible before they kill you, as you said. As long as governments have weapons and would use them on the public (they have and they will continue to), we as citizens require the same types of weapons to make the odds even. But nope... And why would that be? For our safety and protection from each other? It is likely more to enforce tyranny? I would add that "hunting and self defense" was not the reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution.

"Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you." I read this and thought "well this is exactly why the 2nd Amendment was written" Than I saw this "I would add that "hunting and self defense" was not the reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution." and thought "Exactl!" Then I read on and saw this "but if our own government gets after a group of us we be fighting against laws rockets and tomahawk missiles., helicopters and bombs from above." and thought "So we're supposed to abandon any hope of fighting for our freedom and just roll over because the government has better tech and we've allowed it to get to this point?" The whole point is we should have whatever we need to fight against this if the government decides to use LAW rockets, Tomahawks, Helicopters and Bombs from above on it's citizens. Just because we've allowed the government to have such over reaching power over us doesn't mean we have to let them keep it and abandon the reason the Declaration of Independence was written because it might be difficult. I'll remind people that believe we can't fight the government of the recent end to a 20 year war with a mostly lightly armed enemy that ended with the Taliban owning Afghanistan. Vietnam comes to mind also. Don't give in and don't give up.

I think that there are many reasons why were were there for 20 years and it has nothing to do with Afghanistan or 9/11. We shouldn't abandon hope or our rights, I agree. Our problem is that we don't have numbers. We are a bunch of individuals with no organization what-so-ever. And any organizational attempt has been infiltrated by the FBI and who knows who else. Countless examples of this including the most current FBI initiated kidnapping scheme of our Governess. There can be no comparison between the Taliban and US "patriots". And the Taliban own Afghanistan now because that was the plan all along. Yet, I hear all of this nonsense... "let them come for my guns..." and so much threatening and ignorant babel. And ignorant babel that is transmitted over the internet for all to hear. If they come and we or they are not organized to resist, they and boisterous individuals like that will simply be killed if they resist. One thing about our government is that they always gang up on the little guy. Ruby Ridge is such an example. And they have no problem with killing citizens where they stand. This is an organized government that have infiltrated themselves into every facet of our lives and we have helped them do this. If you carry a smart phone, they know your exact location and know your conversations. You are already compromised. Nothing like this occurred in Afghanistan (until we got there and then only on a small scale). But the surveillance in Afghanistan pails in comparison to how we are surveilled and controlled. Too many Americans watch too much TV and can't see the forest through the trees. But resistors will say.. "I'll die for my guns" or "over my dead body". Ok, the government is prepared for this and will satisfy your desire. But, really? A wise man once said, "be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove". Another said, there is a time and place for everything under the sun. Chose your battles carefully.

[WeldonHunter]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

I would say the same thing for all firearms. Every firearm you have on your wall was created for one purpose... to kill as many enemy people as possible before they kill you, as you said. As long as governments have weapons and would use them on the public (they have and they will continue to), we as citizens require the same types of weapons to make the odds even. But nope... And why would that be? For our safety and protection from each other? It is likely more to enforce tyranny? I would add that "hunting and self defense" was not the reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution.

"Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you." I read this and thought "well this is exactly why the 2nd Amendment was written" Than I saw this "I would add that "hunting and self defense" was not the reason the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution." and thought "Exactl!" Then I read on and saw this "but if our own government gets after a group of us we be fighting against laws rockets and tomahawk missiles., helicopters and bombs from above." and thought "So we're supposed to abandon any hope of fighting for our freedom and just roll over because the government has better tech and we've allowed it to get to this point?" The whole point is we should have whatever we need to fight against this if the government decides to use LAW rockets, Tomahawks, Helicopters and Bombs from above on it's citizens. Just because we've allowed the government to have such over reaching power over us doesn't mean we have to let them keep it and abandon the reason the Declaration of Independence was written because it might be difficult. I'll remind people that believe we can't fight the government of the recent end to a 20 year war with a mostly lightly armed enemy that ended with the Taliban owning Afghanistan. Vietnam comes to mind also. Don't give in and don't give up.

I think that there are many reasons why were were there for 20 years and it has nothing to do with Afghanistan or 9/11. We shouldn't abandon hope or our rights, I agree. Our problem is that we don't have numbers. We are a bunch of individuals with no organization what-so-ever. And any organizational attempt has been infiltrated by the FBI and who knows who else. Countless examples of this including the most current FBI initiated kidnapping scheme of our Governess. There can be no comparison between the Taliban and US "patriots". And the Taliban own Afghanistan now because that was the plan all along. Yet, I hear all of this nonsense... "let them come for my guns..." and so much threatening and ignorant babel. And ignorant babel that is transmitted over the internet for all to hear. If they come and we or they are not organized to resist, they and boisterous individuals like that will simply be killed if they resist. One thing about our government is that they always gang up on the little guy. Ruby Ridge is such an example. And they have no problem with killing citizens where they stand. This is an organized government that have infiltrated themselves into every facet of our lives and we have helped them do this. If you carry a smart phone, they know your exact location and know your conversations. You are already compromised. Nothing like this occurred in Afghanistan (until we got there and then only on a small scale). But the surveillance in Afghanistan pails in comparison to how we are surveilled and controlled. Too many Americans watch too much TV and can't see the forest through the trees. But resistors will say.. "I'll die for my guns" or "over my dead body". Ok, the government is prepared for this and will satisfy your desire. But, really? A wise man once said, "be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove". Another said, there is a time and place for everything under the sun. Chose your battles carefully.

I kind of thought we were on the same page seeing as we agree the second Amendment was not written to protect the right to hunt. You're right we may not have the organized numbers as society stands now but once things break off and agencies like the FBI and all the other intel gathering groups will be very ineffective. If we ever descend in to a state where the government is going after it's own citizens in a war like setting, and that's what I'm talking about, it will be Americans fighting against Americans. The comparison I made about Afghanistan and Vietnam has noting to do with comparing them to American "patriot's" and everything to do with human nature and the will to survive. No matter what the reason we were in these countries and I totally disagree with us being there in both, never underestimate a determined foe. Granted we had rules of engagement that prevented us from doing certain things in Afghanistan and to a point in Vietnam but fighting in this type of environment is exactly the unorganized type of fight that will happen here. There's estimated to be 140 million gun owners in this country, they can't roll up and do door kicks on everyone of them. No matter how strong or organized our armed forces are they're going to be dealing with the same type of situation here that they did in the middle east as well as southeast Asia. The problem is there was no truly defined enemy. No organized force to pinpoint and eliminate. The enemy wore no uniform and could blend in with the population at anytime. Not like fighting the Germans on a front line. That's exactly what will happen here. I'm not one of those people sitting here being a badass on the internet and claiming "Come Take Them" or any of the other stuff you mentioned. I know I'm probably on watch lists, hell I run a firearms and ammo finding site. Bottom line for me is I'm an old dude that doesn't like the way I see the country going and when or if things get hairy will do what I have to.

[willyj73]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

People with your attitude is part of the reason the government keeps trampling our rights more and more everyday.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

[steelbuttplate]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

People with your attitude is part of the reason the government keeps trampling our rights more and more everyday.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

I feed myself, always have, never drawn a dime of unemployment or welfare, the only thing I lick is an ice cream cone. You think the general population needs machine guns, hell put em in the grocery stores, no paperwork, no age limit, I don't give a rats ass. There are plenty of non-patriots that want one too. So does MS 13. Lets have daily mass shootings .

[willyj73]

Since neither one was invented when that law was written, maybe the law needs to be revised. They make a gun fire like a machine gun, I don't see the need for either for hunting or self defense. Machine guns have one purpose, for war, to kill as many enemy as possible before they kill you.

People with your attitude is part of the reason the government keeps trampling our rights more and more everyday.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

I feed myself, always have, never drawn a dime of unemployment or welfare, the only thing I lick is an ice cream cone. You think the general population needs machine guns, hell put em in the grocery stores, no paperwork, no age limit, I don't give a rats ass. There are plenty of non-patriots that want one too. So does MS 13. Lets have daily mass shootings .

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

[steelbuttplate]

My chains are all out in the woodshed, and posterity can crouch down and kiss my ass. . I won't comply with any magazine bans or assault weapons bans. Fuck Joe Biden.

[tomaustin]

The vast majority of posters on this and any similar board have NEVER fired a shot with the intent to kill another human.

IT IS NOT A EASY DECISION TO MAKE....

Most especially when you come to realize that you are the subject of someone else with a firearm pointed at you who you never saw.....

Sticking your head above the edge of a foxhole is a life changing experience.....

Please cease acting as if you are up to the challenge.........FEW ARE......

[steelbuttplate]

The vast majority of posters on this and any similar board have NEVER fired a shot with the intent to kill another human.

IT IS NOT A EASY DECISION TO MAKE....

Most especially when you come to realize that you are the subject of someone else with a firearm pointed at you who you never saw.....

Sticking your head above the edge of a foxhole is a life changing experience.....

Please cease acting as if you are up to the challenge.........FEW ARE......

Are you saying self defense requires some kind of super human power?

[steelbuttplate]

The ATF is just following the "process". They have no intention other than to ban these things. And they will. It doesn't matter if 100% of the responses were supporting these "braces". The government is communist now. And really, if I had one of these pistols ("pistol" is a laugh in itself), I'd purchase a folding stock and install it at the appropriate time. Yeah illegal as hell, but soon, it won't matter much. And you think that a huge outcry and complaining will change anything? Heck the bump stock was swept away even under a so-called conservative 2A minded president.

A bump stock or a binary trigger should make a firearm a class 3, no need to make them illegal.

Class 3 would not be better than illegal for a bumpfire ? ? That was really my only point. Holy shitcan of worms this has become. uh, while your on the computer, AMMO on Sale !