Finnish Civil Guard M39's
- Genetically Swiss
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Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Most of us familiar with Finnish Mosin-Nagant and Civil Guard (SK.Y) weapons in particular, know that SAKO Civil Guard production ran from 1942 to 1944. A documented 10,500 were contracted to be delivered to the Civil Guard from SAKO within those years. On Tuco's old, but exceedingly informative website, the highest reported number serial number is 509667. Here is the thing, I have serial number 509785. It looks like Tuco's old site hasn't been updated in years, I don't know if he's even around anymore.
Bottom line, how out of date is Tuco's old site? And does anyone have any further data on serial numbers and SAKO manufactured Civil Guard rifles? SAKO allegedly started the Civil Guard serials at 500,000. So they theoretically should have ended at, or around 510,500. Theoretically.
Respectfully,
GS
Bottom line, how out of date is Tuco's old site? And does anyone have any further data on serial numbers and SAKO manufactured Civil Guard rifles? SAKO allegedly started the Civil Guard serials at 500,000. So they theoretically should have ended at, or around 510,500. Theoretically.
Respectfully,
GS
Last edited by Genetically Swiss on Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"He who shoots first laughs last."
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
I had not heard that either one of them had passed, as for Tuco's site, I don't think it's been updated in some time, but I don't monitor it. Haven't spent time there in many years, and it didn't seem to be getting updated then, that I noticed anyway.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
The first Civil Guard order for m/39 was actually placed in the summer of 1940. It was consisted of 4000 rifles to be produced by SAKO.Genetically Swiss wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:24 pm Most of us familiar with Finnish Mosin-Nagant and Civil Guard (SK.Y) weapons in particular, know that SAKO Civil Guard production ran from 1942 to 1944.
- Genetically Swiss
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Excellent, thank you Mangrove.
GS
GS
"He who shoots first laughs last."
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Highest reported serial number is probably the highest that they had known about through other collectors. Some people keep track of serial numbers and characteristics of various rifles. So, I'm guessing that's what happened (I don't know for sure, just guessing). Not sure which site you're referring to. If it's Mosinnagant.net, it looks like it hasn't been updated since 2006
Mosin Fanboy
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
I know where there is one that is REALLY low serial number!
Sorry, can't show you the last number!
Darryl
That website has many errors now. As it gets "older", more info is know and his site gets more obsolete.
Take his "straight stock" info. That is way off. How they were put on the rifles is wrong and I have info that proves they were being put on well after the serial numbers he suggests. I presented it to him a few years back and he agreed. But the website is still taken as "proof".
Darryl
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Sorry, can't show you the last number!
Darryl
That website has many errors now. As it gets "older", more info is know and his site gets more obsolete.
Take his "straight stock" info. That is way off. How they were put on the rifles is wrong and I have info that proves they were being put on well after the serial numbers he suggests. I presented it to him a few years back and he agreed. But the website is still taken as "proof".
Darryl
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- Genetically Swiss
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Umm, yeah, that’s pretty freaking low!
GS
GS
"He who shoots first laughs last."
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Take his "straight stock" info. That is way off. How they were put on the rifles is wrong and I have info that proves they were being put on well after the serial numbers he suggests. I presented it to him a few years back and he agreed. But the website is still taken as "proof".
Darryl
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[/quote]
I'd be interested in seeing the info you have on straight stocked M39's, that's the same theory I've had for quite some time but never found any proof.
Darryl
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[/quote]
I'd be interested in seeing the info you have on straight stocked M39's, that's the same theory I've had for quite some time but never found any proof.
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
I have the serial numbers of nearly 350 Straight Stock M39's.
I can't show it right now because I am moving to a new host for my websites (not this one). I have another 10 or so I don't have on that list to add. I will work on it and try to get them posted here very soon. Before next week?
Darryl
I can't show it right now because I am moving to a new host for my websites (not this one). I have another 10 or so I don't have on that list to add. I will work on it and try to get them posted here very soon. Before next week?
Darryl
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
That will be very interesting, I eagerly await your posting dolk.
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Excellent, I have two 1941 Sako straight stock M39's that are outside the "accepted" serial number range of 200000-206200 but in all other ways look correct and unrefurbished and I've always suspected that they were original. It just doesn't make sense that Sako would use all 6200 straight stocks before installing any of the new pistol grip stocks, especially if they had multiple assembly lines running at the same time. In case you don't have them already my two are SN# 207945(also PL marked) and SN# 207367dolk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:17 pm I have the serial numbers of nearly 350 Straight Stock M39's.
I can't show it right now because I am moving to a new host for my websites (not this one). I have another 10 or so I don't have on that list to add. I will work on it and try to get them posted here very soon. Before next week?
Darryl
- Genetically Swiss
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
"He who shoots first laughs last."
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
I have this info of Sky m/39 rifles.
m/39 SAKO Sk.Y
m/39 SAKO Sk.Y
Barrel Date Low Serial High Serial Minimum Produced Maximum Produced Number of Serial Number Number by Year by Year Numbers in Database by Year 1942 500000 503934 3934 4009 ~106 1943 504009 509029 5020 5070 ~148 1944 509079 510810 1731 1781 ~53
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
I have the 207945 but not the 2307367ssg_lord wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:49 amExcellent, I have two 1941 Sako straight stock M39's that are outside the "accepted" serial number range of 200000-206200 but in all other ways look correct and unrefurbished and I've always suspected that they were original. It just doesn't make sense that Sako would use all 6200 straight stocks before installing any of the new pistol grip stocks, especially if they had multiple assembly lines running at the same time. In case you don't have them already my two are SN# 207945(also PL marked) and SN# 207367dolk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:17 pm I have the serial numbers of nearly 350 Straight Stock M39's.
I can't show it right now because I am moving to a new host for my websites (not this one). I have another 10 or so I don't have on that list to add. I will work on it and try to get them posted here very soon. Before next week?
Darryl
Thank you.
that helps the argument it goes beyond the old number 206,200 cutoff.
I presented this evidence to Vic and it was generally decided that that number should be AT LEAST 200,000 to 208,000. Perhaps even 212,794 ! Vic would go with 208,00, but hedged a little on going to 212,798. But I would make that argument.
Study Conclusions:
This would seem to indicate they used over 8,000 straight stocks or they mixed in pistol grip stocks in at some point.
Did they have more stocks than 7,000 to start with? Perhaps 8,000? This would explain the M39's with straight stocks on them from 200,000 to 207,999.
Finding straight stocks on M39's above 208,000 would indicate either they were swapped on to these rifles during repairs (and only to 1941 M39's because they very rarely shown on other years).
But clearly they used straight stocks on M39 till at least 207,999. Even Vic agrees with that.
I also have a study on PL marked M39's.
Darryl (Dolk)
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
According to the Finnish records, SAKO had 6200 straight stock blanks for m/39 ready in late 1940. In order to hasten the production, the Ministry of Defence authorised them to use no more than 7000 straight stocks in m/39 production. There's no mention of specific serial number range for these straight stock m/39 in the archives.dolk wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:55 pmThis would seem to indicate they used over 8,000 straight stocks or they mixed in pistol grip stocks in at some point.Did they have more stocks than 7,000 to start with? Perhaps 8,000? This would explain the M39's with straight stocks on them from 200,000 to 207,999.
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
I've just joined this group after being away for a LONG TIME. The old forum I did belong is no longer in use. My question
is - what has caused the increase in prices of the Finnish M/Ns?
is - what has caused the increase in prices of the Finnish M/Ns?
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Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Welcome back, this is Bob's old board, just under different ownership since 2011. What caused the price increase? You're kidding right? For starters age, it's been over 30 years since the bulk of the Finn built Mosins came into the USA, 20 years since collectors began to take serious notice of them and information about them began to be accessible on the internet. Ten -12 years since demand exceeded available supply from the surplus sellers. Two years since the country went off the rails and things got insane on the gun market, and ammo. My friend watched some guy at a flea market pay $850 for a Bubba sporterized US M1917 Remington rifle a few days ago, the seller had been asking a grand. In light of that can you imagine what that same guy might pay for a nice M39. That lunacy coupled with the ever higher demand from collectors for these rifles is driving prices to heights unimagined when I was buying them for less than a C note 30 years back. It's a different world now.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
Thanks for the information. I have a M39, 1944 Sako that looks like it just came out of the factory, absolutely MINT. I saw prices ranging from $600 to $1200 and couldn't believe it. Looks like I'll be heading to the next DFW gun show. Thanks again
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
If you're considering selling, let me know!
Also, are straight stocked M39s still beefed up like the semi pistol grip ones, or are they similar or the same as regular 91/30 stocks?
Also, are straight stocked M39s still beefed up like the semi pistol grip ones, or are they similar or the same as regular 91/30 stocks?
Re: Finnish Civil Guard M39's
They are m39 stocks, they look just like normal m39 stocks without pistol grip. They look the most like m28-30s. They don’t look at all like m91-30