Korean War Captured ex-Dragoon [USMC Researchers Needed]

[NineteenEleven]

Earlier this year I acquired the most historically significant firearm in my possession.

exdragoon 001a.jpg

exdragoon 002a.jpg

exdragoon 003a.jpg

exdragoon 004a.jpg

exdragoon 006a.jpg

exdragoon 007a.jpg

exdragoon 008a.jpg

exdragoon 010a.jpg

exdragoon 013a.jpg

exdragoon 015a.jpg

exdragoon 017a.jpg

exdragoon 018.0a.jpg

It's a 1931 ex-Dragoon with no less than 36 names, nicknames, and initials carved into stock.
Dated July 5, followed by 51-52.
I'm certain it's Marine Corps as they're the only branch with a Gunnery Sargent. (Gunny Polk)
Given the number of names I believe it was signed by a platoon. What platoon I have not determined, this is where I'm going to need help. If I can pin down two or more people in the same platoon and get a list of people in that platoon I can match the rest of the names and initials. Though I have found sources for declassified Korean War journals I haven't found a source of names of marines in platoons. Once that's nailed down I can use the declassified journals to determine what was going on around July 5th for that platoon.

No capture papers included as it is duffle cut. I believe it was brought in by Al Springer* as his name and some details are scratched below the bolt handle.


These are the names on the stock transcribed to the best of my abilities to read them.
=============================================================
LEFT SIDE - Butt to muzzle

01. Tholen
02. Ferry
03. S. E. Kahn (first initial is difficult to interpret)
04. SKI
05a. "BUCK"
05b. 'Keller (likely separate from Buck)
06. PEABODY
07. LETT
08. DUNCAN
09. HELTON
10. TiM/JiM/GiM (Is there a 27th letter to the alphabet?)
11. A. Holden
---------------------------Possible Former Owner---------------------------
12. Al Sp_nger (Springer?)
C15 (I do not know what C15 represents)
June, 5 '51' - '52' (Likely aquired June 5 1951)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. CRAIG (or E FAIG?)
14. D.R. Whitlock
15. DESIMONE
16. TEX
17. KRAUSE
18. HRZ

TOP - Butt to muzzle

19. Bailey
20. J R Dunkin

RIGHT SIDE - Butt to muzzle

21. JONES
22. MOSE (very light)
23. KELLEY
24. STEEP / STEED (Not sure if nick or name)
25. McLAIN
26. SHAKLEE
27a. GUNNY
27b. POLK (most likely the gunnery sergeant.)
28. JOHN MANN (Best carved name)
29. Dan / Pan (Difficult to decipher)
30. Ray Ibister
31. LAMBERT
32. NELSON
33. BROWN

BOTTOM - Butt to muzzle

34. REED
35. G N FARINA (Best Guess)
36. NUMBNUT
=============================================================

[millman]

That is pretty cool. Good luck with your research.

[ffuries]

C15 could be a location ID, sometimes places are given a ID when no name is available for it. IE Site C15, or Hill C15, section C15 on a map etc.

[SA1911a1]

That is a really interesting piece. Good luck with your hunt, it is going to be tough.

Why do you think it is Korean war? Is is possible that it could have been Vietnam.

[ffuries]

That is a really interesting piece. Good luck with your hunt, it is going to be tough.

Why do you think it is Korean war? Is is possible that it could have been Vietnam.

Good point Steve. Went back and re-read has a possible date of June 51 on it

[ffuries]

Ray Ibister Korean War USMC Vet.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/ ... =139438458

[NineteenEleven]

I do suspect C15 is a location on a map, I just can't confirm it.
I don't think it's from Vietnam, the first US casualty was in 1956 with only 3 more before 1960.
The problem I found with obituaries is they never specify what platoon they were in and I have found more than one person with the same name that served in the USMC... It's possible someone that carved their name on that gun is still alive.

[ffuries]

I do suspect C15 is a location on a map, I just can't confirm it.
I don't think it's from Vietnam, the first US casualty was in 1956 with only 3 more before 1960.
The problem I found with obituaries is they never specify what platoon they were in and I have found more than one person with the same name that served in the USMC... It's possible someone that carved their name on that gun is still alive.

True, but looking at this name and finding out what unit he served with in Korea, then cross reference the unit history and see how many names you can match up. You'll be surprised how quick the pieces will start to fall into place.

Sgt Raymond E. Ibister

[qz2026]

Very interesting piece. Congrats. I don't know why they would have that date on it unless it was from the Korean conflict. Problem with the Marines in Korea was that they barely got out with their asses intact, at least from Chosin. Cant imagine carting an additional rifle back. Anyone's guess though. That said, there was the 15th Army infantry regiment, 3rd Infantry Division, in country that had a C company which could be the C15 reference. https://www.koreanwar.org/html/units/15 ... _Looking=7. Perhaps, you can write the koreanwar.org and get some additional information. Good luck.

[NineteenEleven]

I've poked around on koreanwar.org. They captured weapons from the enemy frequently. You can see tally's kept on weapons captured in documents here
https://www.koreanwar.org/html/usmc_kor ... cords.html

Here's one I bookmarked because it was dated June 1951.
https://www.koreanwar2.org/kwp2/usmc/04 ... E_1951.pdf
"The 1st Bn suffered 10 WIA and receieved 24 NBC, and 13 RTD's. Enemy equipment captured or destroyed this date were: 12 burp guns, 5 light machine guns, 10 rifles, 4 M1 rifles, 2cs 32 cal ammo, 3 cs grenades, 4 trucks and 1 artillery piece"

[SA1911a1]

Ray Ibister Korean War USMC Vet.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/ ... =139438458

Good work, Mike. I searched a couple of the whole names without luck and dropped it.

[Junk Yard Dog]

[ffuries]

Ray Ibister Korean War USMC Vet.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/ ... =139438458

Good work, Mike. I searched a couple of the whole names without luck and dropped it.

I'm retired, was bored and it was too damn hot to take my ass outside.

[Judi and her Mosins]

Contact the USMC for help....I am sure they would dig into this like hound dogs,...especially with the Presidents trip to the RONK.

https://www.usmcmuseum.com/

https://www.marines.mil/

https://grc-usmcu.libguides.com/marine- ... hives/main

[millman]

How have you been Judi?

[BuckeyeSgt]

Maybe try here
https://www.koreanwar.org/html/usmc_kor ... html?pid=1

[shoto2758]

number 36= numbnut..Funny...

[Bud]

Coming very late to this thread but had to comment. First, I am three times retired; LEO, US Army and my last gig was as a military history research for the US Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Benefit Administration where I was identified as the subject matter expert for the entire system before I left. Now that I have blown my horn a little bit too much, I have to also write that I am trying to learn more about a 1939 Tula 91/30.

You have a very interesting and I suspect highly desirable "bring back" and there is zero doubt in my mind that it was a pickup by Company C, 1st Bn 5th Marines. In July, Charley Company was located eight miles north on Inje, North Korea. On the 15th of July. Charley Company and the 1st Bn changed to the Corps Reserve.

I suspect, after reading the 1st Battalion 5th Marine Historical Diary for July, 1951, that the individual that brought back this Mosin was one of a number of enlisted Marines who were relieved of assignment and rotated home. This happened primarily after the 15th of the month while the Bn was in Regimental reserve. You can read this particular historical diary at the link below. Now back to my quest!

https://www.koreanwar2.org/kwp2/usmc/07 ... 7_2109.pdf

[NineteenEleven]

Sorry for the late reply. That's very helpful! I thought I was going to have to go through the muster rolls of the entire marine corps from 51 to 52 to find matches but that really narrows it down. Might I inquire about your method of locating the company?
I did make a list of people MIA/KIA with the same names in 51-52 and sadly but also interestingly someone with the surname of Jones from that company/battalion/corps does show up as having been killed in action September 19th 1951
Jones, Thomas Leo / Lowell, IN
Company C, 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division.
https://www.koreanwar.org/html/15196/ko ... -leo-jones

Now I guess it's a game of matching names on muster rolls. It looks as though the muster rolls are only available at the National Archives and ancestry.com so I will need to create an account it seems...

THANK YOU and good luck with your own quest

[NineteenEleven]

Wait a minute... It just dawned on me.
C15 on the stock may represent "C" Company, 1st Battalion, 5th Marines. Also expressed "Charlie One Five" going by a book title on Charlie Company in the Vietnam war...
Wow, that's another mystery solved. Now just to verify the names and attempt to find photographs of the Marines.