1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Berkowwm · Post by **Berkowwm** » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:11 pm

Hi everyone,

This is my first official post outside of the new member thread. I know that most of you probably have Mosins that are much more rare and interesting than what I'm about to describe, but to me this rifle is an absolute gem!

I recently acquired a Mosin Nagant 91/30 that was sold to me as a 1925 ex-Dragoon. On first impression it definitely looked to have taken the most beating out of all the other milsurps in my collection: Quite a few force-matched parts (though the numbers were done nicely), and large chunks of the stock look to have been repaired. When I got to really look closely at it though, this rifle got even more interesting. There is a Soviet crest on the receiver which has been stamped over an Imperial Eagle, and sure enough, the receiver itself is an Izhevsk from 1914. It must have been refurbished in 1925, converted to 91/30 spec after that, and I wonder if it had been refurbed again at some point post-WWII as well.

Born in 1914, this rifle could have been anywhere from WWI to the Finnish Civil War, Russian Revolution, and beyond... If only these old warhorses could talk! I took some hasty cell phone photos during my initial disassembly, and I do have some questions about a few of the markings on it.

1) Does anyone know what the markings on the "right underside of the receiver" (next to the trigger spring) in the photo below represent? To me it looks like a series of numbers and a Russian P along with a tiny eagle, but have not been able to find anything on the internet.

2) Is there any significance to those tiny star markings on the underside of the barrel (and also next to the black powder proof on the right side of the barrel shank)?

3) When the Imperial Eagle is present with an uppercase Russian "P" underneath it, does that just stand for "Proof?"

Thank you for your time! I look forward to learning as much as I can about this rifle.
William

Post by **millman** » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:14 pm

That is a nice one. I would call it a 1925 with a 1914 receiver, though.

racerguy00 · Post by **racerguy00** » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:58 pm

Nice ex dragoon. I like the recycled receivers. On the Russian mosins the barrel date is considered the rifle to them, so it would be a 1925 Izhevsk ex dragoon.

Almost_Samurai · Post by **Almost_Samurai** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:30 am

The only stamp I see that may have known meaning is the (31r) on the bottom of the barrel, "r" usually stands for "year". Maybe a refurbishment date? Could be wrong. I know the mark under the Izhevsk bow and arrow is a refurbishment mark as well. Other than that the other random strange stamps are most likely proof/inspector marks. There is amazing things to be learned in this forum. What I did was search the forum for keywords I was looking for and read through old topics that helped answer a lot of questions. In most cases if a mark isn't listed here: http://7.62x54r.net/ it's unknown. Welcome to the crew! Nice Mosin!

Berkowwm · Post by **Berkowwm** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:51 am

Thanks, guys! Right you are... I got stuck in the mindset of the receiver being the rifle, where the Russians would consider this a 1925.

If I get a chance to take a nice picture of the whole rifle, I will post it up here as well. The bore is probably the nicest of the three Mosins I have, and it still has the older style one-piece ejector.

One other question: Most photos of the one-piece ejectors I see are in the white, though the one in my rifle is blued. Were both types made, or did this one probably start out in the white, and become blued during a refurb?

Have a great day,
Will

djbuck1 · Post by **djbuck1** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:30 am

Very nice! I like the stock repair, too.

racerguy00 · Post by **racerguy00** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:57 am

Interesting that it has a one piece ejector. I've only seen two piece ones on refurbs. It would have been blued during refurb.

SA1911a1 · Post by **SA1911a1** » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:39 pm

That is a nice rifle. Mixtures of barrel dates and tang dates are maybe more common than you might think. There is no way to know when the two were mated; It could have been done anytime between 1925 and the 1970s. I kind of agree with the thought that it is a 1914 rifle with a '25 barrel, since, at least in this country the rifle is the receiver. I would hate to have to explain that to a potential buyer, and if I were cataloging it it would be under 1925. I hope that clears things up. ;)

Berkowwm · Post by **Berkowwm** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:19 am

Thanks for the welcome and the info, everyone!

Snayperskaya · Post by **Snayperskaya** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:43 am

Almost_Samurai wrote:The only stamp I see that may have known meaning is the (31r) on the bottom of the barrel, "r" usually stands for "year". Maybe a refurbishment date? Could be wrong. I know the mark under the Izhevsk bow and arrow is a refurbishment mark as well. Other than that the other random strange stamps are most likely proof/inspector marks. There is amazing things to be learned in this forum. What I did was search the forum for keywords I was looking for and read through old topics that helped answer a lot of questions. In most cases if a mark isn't listed here: http://7.62x54r.net/ it's unknown. Welcome to the crew! Nice Mosin!

Could "31" be the year it was updated to 91/30 spec and became an ex-Dragoon?

I have a '26 Izhevsk ex-Dragoon......

Almost_Samurai · Post by **Almost_Samurai** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:53 am

Snayperskaya wrote:Could "31" be the year it was updated to 91/30 spec and became an ex-Dragoon?

I have a '26 Izhevsk ex-Dragoon....

I'm far from an expert but from what I read here the (r) often stands for year so if its a **r I would think there's a good chance it was dated at a significant time... ie: Refurbishment, Capture, when the barrel and receiver were mated or some other notable circumstance. I'm afraid we will never know exact meaning. I'm sure there are countless different markings... I enjoy very much surfing the forum looking for other unknown marks on other rifles that mine also has... maybe try and determine the source.

Snayperskaya · Post by **Snayperskaya** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:56 am

Almost_Samurai wrote:
Snayperskaya wrote:Could "31" be the year it was updated to 91/30 spec and became an ex-Dragoon?
I have a '26 Izhevsk ex-Dragoon....

I'm far from an expert but from what I read here the (r) often stands for year so if its a **r I would think there's a good chance it was dated at a significant time... ie: Refurbishment, Capture or some other notable circumstance. I'm afraid we will never know exact meaning.

The "r" does indeed stand for year

SA1911a1 · Post by **SA1911a1** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:56 am

Putting the R at the end of the date is a Russian grammar thing. Russians always include the word year god (goht) (year). The plural years would be gody (goh-dih) (years) or goda (gah-dah) (years). That is what the r (which is not an English R) symbolizes.

Did I get that right guys?

Snayperskaya · Post by **Snayperskaya** » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:19 am

SA1911a1 wrote:Putting the R at the end of the date is a Russian grammar thing. Russians always include the word year god (goht) (year). The plural years would be gody (goh-dih) (years) or goda (gah-dah) (years). That is what the r (which is not an English R) symbolizes.

Did I get that right guys?

Pretty much spot on.....The “r” is actually Cyrillic “Г”, "G" in English, which is the first letter in “Год”.

Год translates to the word year and transliterates to the letters “god”. It does not mean God, the deity.

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1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

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Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel

Re: 1914 Izhevsk 91/30 with a 1925 barrel