Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
I totally agree. That I am shrinking the shot group shows that the inaccuracy in shooting is due to me, not the rifle.
"And beneath the starry flag, we civilized them with a Krag..."
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
Anybody who owns a sniper rifle and has shot it both with and without the optic can tell you the advantages of having the optic.
The Soviet standard for a sniper rifle of 8 cm groups at 100m was for using both open sights and the optic. The only limitation there is the shooter, and there is no reason a good shooter cannot meet the sniper standard using open sights. However, there is more to shooting in actual combat than whether you can shoot a 8 cm group with or without the optic.
Shooting with the optic is easier. You will have a higher rate of fire and not need as much time to aim carefully. Follow-up shots will be much quicker. You can aim better in low-light conditions or from hidden locations. Your eyes won't fatigue as much when you are shooting for hours on end. Obviously there are some disadvantages to the optic like raising your head up and reflection off the objective lens revealing your position to the enemy.
So whether you can shoot a piece of paper at the range just as accurately with or without the optic is not the whole story. I think striving to achieve a sniper standard level of accuracy using the open sights is a great way to make yourself a better marksman, but in actual combat the scope helps a significant amount. At the range you have all the time in the world to line up the open sights just right and squeeze off a good shot, but in the heat of combat in less than ideal conditions where you don't have the time and calm atmosphere to take as much time aiming, the optic has a clear advantage.
The Soviet standard for a sniper rifle of 8 cm groups at 100m was for using both open sights and the optic. The only limitation there is the shooter, and there is no reason a good shooter cannot meet the sniper standard using open sights. However, there is more to shooting in actual combat than whether you can shoot a 8 cm group with or without the optic.
Shooting with the optic is easier. You will have a higher rate of fire and not need as much time to aim carefully. Follow-up shots will be much quicker. You can aim better in low-light conditions or from hidden locations. Your eyes won't fatigue as much when you are shooting for hours on end. Obviously there are some disadvantages to the optic like raising your head up and reflection off the objective lens revealing your position to the enemy.
So whether you can shoot a piece of paper at the range just as accurately with or without the optic is not the whole story. I think striving to achieve a sniper standard level of accuracy using the open sights is a great way to make yourself a better marksman, but in actual combat the scope helps a significant amount. At the range you have all the time in the world to line up the open sights just right and squeeze off a good shot, but in the heat of combat in less than ideal conditions where you don't have the time and calm atmosphere to take as much time aiming, the optic has a clear advantage.
I'm just here for the free coffee mug and tee shirt. 
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
not sure how to edit the post, but the year of manufacture, was 1944, not 1977.czech wrote:
this is what my 1944 PU Izhevsk can do at 100 yds, using my handloads, with 165 Sierra Gamekings .308 projectiles.
Group measured from center to center.
I fixed the year for you.
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
Curious to hear what ammo everyone was using. I wasn't impressed with my sniper, with the standard Russian surplus. I have yet to try reloads. Looks like Czech was reloading for theirs.
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
1946 surplus performed poorly in my ex-sniper. Winchester white box performed nicely though. I believe Winchester and S&B ammo are both made by PPU. Nice brass cased, boxer-primed ammo. 180gr. as I recall.Fledge wrote:Curious to hear what ammo everyone was using. I wasn't impressed with my sniper, with the standard Russian surplus. I have yet to try reloads. Looks like Czech was reloading for theirs.
I'm just here for the free coffee mug and tee shirt.
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
S&B ammo is Czech. PPU is Serbian.
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
My staple is red army standard, 148gr.
I suspect that it is a bit more standard that surplus, but not as good in consistency as Winchester or PPU. Of course it may also just be me.
I suspect that it is a bit more standard that surplus, but not as good in consistency as Winchester or PPU. Of course it may also just be me.
"And beneath the starry flag, we civilized them with a Krag..."
Re: Mosin Sniper Accuracy...
IIRC the Winchester 7.62x54r hunting ammo is rebranded PPU.jones0430 wrote:My staple is red army standard, 148gr.
I suspect that it is a bit more standard that surplus, but not as good in consistency as Winchester or PPU. Of course it may also just be me.
“Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” George Orwell, English novelist, essayist, and critic, 1903-1950
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis