mle16 berthier from Vietnam

[burb1989]

Here's another of my fantastic finds. This one walked into a small military show a couple of years ago and it was in sorry shape (duffle cut under the front barrel band, wrist had been cut and repaired) and to top it off it was missing its bolt head. When I saw it I just had to get it so I could try and rescue it but I still wanted to be cautious. Looking it over every number I found matched but the carbine was in a sad state. It was a Vietnam bring back but the soldier didn't want to look at it anymore and asked his son to go out and try to sell it for whatever he could just to get it out of the house. After talking to the son about the missing bolt head and the overall condition we settled on a price of $65 since I knew the bolt head would be an expensive cost. I found one on Liberty Tree and managed to get it installed without too much grief. I was the able to shore up the old repair and had the duffle cut expertly repaired by a fellow collector who's been doing this kind of work for decades now. The bore has some rust spots in it that I haven't been able to completely clean out but it is the original barrel from 1890 so I can't complain too much.

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[entropy]

Nice find, should see if you can get the provenance on it. (bringback papers.) It would have been funny if your thread title had said M16 (as these are sometimes called) from Vietnam....

[burb1989]

Nice find, should see if you can get the provenance on it. (bringback papers.) It would have been funny if your thread title had said M16 (as these are sometimes called) from Vietnam....

I'll give it a shot but I doubt I'll get any more info out of the vet as the only reason he got rid of it was because he was sick of looking at it. Two decades ago my dad got rid of his sks he brought home for a similar reason. It had bad memories attached to it and he decided to part with it then.

[desdem12]

[Junk Yard Dog]

Why in hell would a soldier have duffel cut this? It fits in any standard duffle bag with room to spare just the way it is. These are the smallest and lightest type of carbine that still use a full house military cartridge. Vietnam was not a war were duffle cuts needed to be done. You requested bringhome papers from your company commander, these were readily given for any bolt rifle or SKS type rifle, and you checked it with your baggage when you got on the freedom bird at the end of your tour. It's a nice example, but I strongly suspect this was imported from an earlier war based on the duffel cut, that's more of a WW2 thing when you had to bring your rifle home on a troop ship were it would need to be secured in the duffle for over a week or longer.

[burb1989]

Why in hell would a soldier have duffel cut this? It fits in any standard duffle bag with room to spare just the way it is. These are the smallest and lightest type of carbine that still use a full house military cartridge. Vietnam was not a war were duffle cuts needed to be done. You requested bringhome papers from your company commander, these were readily given for any bolt rifle or SKS type rifle, and you checked it with your baggage when you got on the freedom bird at the end of your tour. It's a nice example, but I strongly suspect this was imported from an earlier war based on the duffel cut, that's more of a WW2 thing when you had to bring your rifle home on a troop ship were it would need to be secured in the duffle for over a week or longer.

Well that's not what the son of the vet who sold it to me told me. His father picked it up in Vietnam sometime between 1967 and 1968 (his father couldn't remember exactly and I didn't ask since I thought it could jar a bad memory). Why it was duffle cut I have no idea, maybe a personal preference or even a bad attempt to sporterized it. As for the paperwork that wasn't necessarily for every weapon or unit. My dad was a marine in pretty early (he got in Vietnam in December of 1966 and left just a couple of weeks before the Tet Offensive) got his sks and many other items home without filling out a single form. He just had to put them in his sea bag and he was ok. Helped that he wasn't ever checked for contraband though as he snuck home almost every piece of gear he was issued except for his helmet, his gear for his 1911, and a pair of boots. Everything else he told me he got from other guys in his unit to turn in as his. I still have everything he brought home aside from the sks (I even managed to track down his helmet but that is another story). I even have his cherished mk2 knife he was issued in 1967.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Your dad left Vietnam before the Gun Control Act of 1968 was voted in as law. GCA68 changed the rules on what could be imported and how. Sporterizing is always a possibility, it's rare to see French arms sporterized over here, I have seen it done, but mostly to the Remington made Berthiers that never left and were sold very cheap before WW2. These rifles used clips that could be hard to find and ammunition that was just not a staple of American gunshops, plus they were not of a design familiar to American shooters . Most were just not used much or at all, ended up in attics or on walls like the Swiss Vetterli. My own Mle 1907/15 was brought home from the Great War by a local veteran who entrusted his collection to me in the 1980's, he brought it home because he could, and he had promised to bring back some things for his son who was later to give his all during WW2. The rifle had never been fired since 1918, the bore was thick with dust. I shoot the Lebels and Berthiers, but I manufacture my own ammunition for them, you can buy commercial rounds today from Privi, but back in the day there was simply no supply. Thanks to the French using non corrosive primers what ammunition did turn up was mostly hangfire or outright misfire.

[burb1989]

Your dad left Vietnam before the Gun Control Act of 1968 was voted in as law. GCA68 changed the rules on what could be imported and how. Sporterizing is always a possibility, it's rare to see French arms sporterized over here, I have seen it done, but mostly to the Remington made Berthiers that never left and were sold very cheap before WW2. These rifles used clips that could be hard to find and ammunition that was just not a staple of American gunshops, plus they were not of a design familiar to American shooters . Most were just not used much or at all, ended up in attics or on walls like the Swiss Vetterli. My own Mle 1907/15 was brought home from the Great War by a local veteran who entrusted his collection to me in the 1980's, he brought it home because he could, and he had promised to bring back some things for his son who was later to give his all during WW2. The rifle had never been fired since 1918, the bore was thick with dust. I shoot the Lebels and Berthiers, but I manufacture my own ammunition for them, you can buy commercial rounds today from Privi, but back in the day there was simply no supply. Thanks to the French using non corrosive primers what ammunition did turn up was mostly hangfire or outright misfire.

That sounds a lot like the French Gras rifle and bayonet my great grandfather brought home from ww1. He was in a Canadian artillery unit firing howitzers but he was a part of the battles of Messines Ridge and Passchendaele, where he was exposed to mustard gas. I'm not entirely sure how and where he got the Gras and bayonet but they stayed in his closet hidden from 1918 until his death in 1965 when my uncle was given them and then both were given to me. The bore on it is like it hadn't been shot since before ww1 but it is in great shape and could be a fine shooter if I can find the 11mm ammo it's chambered for. My great grandfather never talked openly about the war but my uncle heard him randomly mention tid bits here and there. I think the main highlight my great grandfather used in his life was that he was a chauffeur for some very wealthy people in Philadelphia (for a time he was even Katherine Hepburn's chauffeur).