my model 1902 mle 16 indochinois berthier

[burb1989]

Hello everyone. I belong to a couple of forums but I always enjoy getting to show my milsurps to fellow aficionados. This was my very first berthier and it introduced me to the world of French firearms. I purchased this berthier back in 2013 from a Vietnam vet who took it off of a Vietcong sniper back in 1968 but he wouldn't go into too much detail as to how exactly he acquired it. He thought the rifle was too far gone to use again and sold it to me for only $50. After I cleaned out the bore and checked the action for rust or any broken parts everything functioned perfectly fine and the bore, after some patches were run down it, was in terrific shape. Just the exterior shape of the stock is questionable as far as condition. To me anyway it's perfect and definitely shows that it's been in Vietnam for quite a long time. Every number on it is matching aside from the trigger group and the bolt head but it does still have the very rare top handguard and its original sling. However it's missing its clearing rod, which to my understanding is made of unobtainium. I also looked at the barrel date, which turned out to be 1926, and after comparing it and the serial number (A 33288) to records from experts on other forums mine appears to have been a late delivery, first being ordered in 1921 as one of 2,200 rifles for that year but not being finished until 1926. This rifle seems to have made it to French Indochina around that time and then disappeared until 1968. Anyway hope you all enjoy this rifle and I'm glad to be a part of a great forum.

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[Junk Yard Dog]

Welcome to the board, Nice Berthier, these were widely used in all of the French colonial possession's. French Indochina would definitely have been one of the places these were used after the great war. The French foreign legion was issued these and later on the native colonial forces would have gotten them. I have a Lebel carbine brought back from Vietnam, in the case of that rifle there was no great battle story with it, he simply bought it and brought it home.

[awalker1829]

Cleaning rods don't exist for the M16 Berthiers-the French Army removed them back about 1921. If your rifle was indeed manufactured in 1921, it may well have never had a cleaning rod. The clips are rarely found and go for up to $50 apiece if you find some. If you want to shoot it, Okie Gauges sells headspace gauges for rifles chambered in the 8 x 50R Lebel.

[burb1989]

Welcome to the board, Nice Berthier, these were widely used in all of the French colonial possession's. French Indochina would definitely have been one of the places these were used after the great war. The French foreign legion was issued these and later on the native colonial forces would have gotten them. I have a Lebel carbine brought back from Vietnam, in the case of that rifle there was no great battle story with it, he simply bought it and brought it home.

My understanding about this one is that it was specifically ordered in 1921 to replaces losses incurred by the Indochinese forces during WW1. Also it still has the slot where the clearing rod would go but who knows when that rod was lost (sometime between 1926 and 1968 as the seller told he it didn't have a rod when he brought it home). I have two other Vietnam bring back rifles in my collection as well: another berthier that started out as an model 1890 but was fully upgraded and a crude Chinese copy of a Gew 88. Finding them in my area is a pain since a vat majority of the Vietnam bring backs are still being held by the vets who brought them home though I can relate as I have all of my dad's bring backs from Vietnam as well. My main sub collecting focus has been on Japanese rifles and militaria but every now and then I'll stumble onto a find like this or rather the find will stumble onto me as most of the collectors in my immediate area almost always want pristine examples instead of pieces like this one.

[Junk Yard Dog]

The French drained their empire for soldiers to fight on the Western Front during the Great War, losses were great among all the fighting units. The French army itself didn't fight in Indochina, that was the job of the French Foreign Legion who's mandate was to fight for France outside of France itself, still is. The Foreign Legion were issued the older rifle designs at that time, and native forces the oldest of all. The Berthier had a long service life, some were still in service into the 1960's.

[burb1989]

Makes sense to me anyway. The Foreign Legion mixed in with local militias/small armies could make for one heck of a defense. Makes me wonder how many battles my rifle saw in its lifetime. I can only speculate because of its age and time of capture but at least I know it was in Indochina during WW2 possibly fighting against the Japanese when they invaded and of course in Vietnam as well.

[desdem12]

[Junk Yard Dog]

French Indochina is Vietnam, or rather the individual territory's that would later become Vietnam were part of French Indochina. That was just what the French called the cluster of colonial possessions they had in southeast Asia.

[lrb605]

Great piece of history!

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