1895 Nagant leads to a Ortgies Patent Werke Erfert

[MoSEEN.Nut]

Ordered an AIM hand pick 1895 Nagant awhile back and received a very nice 1935 Tula Double dated (1951) MO. It seems to be all original, all matching except for the hammer which is from a later 1930's Tula. This gun is an early 1935 if you look at the date below the Tula star, it's wider than the star. Very nice refurb and for the price AIM has them listed at!!

So my oldest and I come up with the dumbest idea we have had in a long time. Ordered a .32 ACP cylinder for it for shooting easy to find cheaper ammo. Bad idea. Couldn't make the off brand cylinder work worth a D. Gave that up and will order a few rounds of Nagant which is now available again just for firing a few times otherwise the Nagant is for the collection.

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Guess what, now we got boxes and boxes of .32 ACP and not an .32 ACP handgun in sight. Went to the Ventura gun show a couple weeks ago. Found a table with some very fine, and expensive, mostly German military rifles and etc. but spotted a little semi auto with a big white tag ".32 ACP" for $250. Picked it up to see what it was and that was it. A late 1921 to early 1922, Fifth Version (1921-1924) and going by the SN it fits for late 21 to early 22. Not a military pocket gun but it is known that quite a few German Officers in WWII carried one in their pocket as backup for their Lugers.

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I am guessing at least 90 percent on bluing and wood grips. This gun is in very fine condition for being 90 years old. Shows some pocket or holster scuffing and that is it. The interior bare metal does not have one speck of corrosion or rust. I think Ortgies based this design on the 1910 John Moses Browning. The patents on the Ortgies starts at 1916 I believe.

Anyway, anybody on this forum familiar with this Heinrich Ortgies and in this case a Deutsche Werke as they bought out Heinrich Ortgies. I read they are very accurate and won a lot of competitions in the 1920's into the 30's. Still haven't fired it, been real busy, but will get out to the range soon. I find it a very nice and interesting semi auto that I had never heard of. Any comments?

[Darryl]

Very nice Nagant.

Another one I need to get.

Dolk

[Junk Yard Dog]

Very nice find, it always pays to look even on the tables loaded down with $4000 Remchesters, there just might be something good tucked away on the side that the dealer took in trade and wants to be rid of.

[Longcolt44]

Both very nice guns, I have a 1937 Tula Nagant.

[Rongo]

Both very nice guns, I have a 1937 Tula Nagant.

+1. I like that .32ACP.

My Nagant revolver is a 32 Tula. Looking for a matching 32 91/30 Tula to pair it with.

[Longcolt44]

Thanks for reminding me Ron. I have a '37 Tula ex-sniper that goes with it.

[Rongo]

Thanks for reminding me Ron. I have a '37 Tula ex-sniper that goes with it.

I see I'm "one upped" again. Too bad that 35' Tula ex-sniper I just got wasn't a 32...

[Darryl]

How hard is it to get ammo these days? I got my son one for Christmas (and I don't even own one!). Can you reload for these things? I understamd the end of the case is crimped over or something? Any photos out there?

Dolk

[MoSEEN.Nut]

How hard is it to get ammo these days? I got my son one for Christmas (and I don't even own one!). Can you reload for these things? I understamd the end of the case is crimped over or something? Any photos out there?

Dolk

New production goes in spurts. Fiocchi and PRVI make a batch every so often and when it's sold out you just have to wait for another batch to show up. This is common with "unique" and low demand ammo. Right now it's in supply. Even found some Russian surplus available.

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You can see that the bullet is recessed into the case. That's because a Nagant moves the cylinder forward into the breech for a gas tight seal. I haven't fired one yet but have read that the Nagant is relatively quiet for a revolver as you get no gas or the noise normally associated when a revolver fires from the cylinder area. I am not too sure that reloading is an option. Somebody on this forum may have more information on that. I am ordering a couple boxes to fire of new production and a couple of the surplus just to collect to go with the Nagant. I assume the Russian surplus is corrosive and means quick cleaning after firing.

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[Ironnewt]

Dolk, I checked on the Lee precision website and they stated that they made a run of dies for Midway but were set up using 32-30 brass. they stated that the standard brass would not fit due to the rim thickness difrence between the starline brass Midway was using and standard 762 Nagant brass

[bunkysdad]

The early semi auto like this just have that certain high quality look to them. They sure age well
Tapatalk

[MoSEEN.Nut]

The early semi auto like this just have that certain high quality look to them. They sure age well
Tapatalk

Yes this is a very high quality semi-auto. The craftsmanship is outstanding. It's heavy for it's size and machined to precision. Probably one of the reason it has no screws, it's pinned together. You can see a couple in the second picture. These two pictures doesn't do it justice as they were taken after it had been handled a lot before any cleaning and new oil. You can even see my thumb print on it. Took the pictures as soon as got it home.

As mentioned earlier from what I read on the internet this Ortgies ruled the competition shooting in it's class during the 20's. I really like this Ortgies and even better not everybody has heard of it, let alone has one. I like finding quality, old quality, that is maybe not rare but out of the ordinary and the price was very good for a California gun show buy.

As a note the logo on the wood grip is not a D but a cat or lion. It's brass to look like gold and it's hard to find them I think with that logo in very good condition (not worn down). Again the look and feel, very well balanced, I really like. Can't wait to get it out to the range or at least an indoor around here, soon, as it's reported to be very accurate. The bore on this Ortgies is a mirror, not a speck anywhere, and looks virtually new.

It has one little drawback. You best hold it kind of low on the grips as the slide will get you right where you don't want, between the thumb and index finger (Ouch). It's a blow back action.

During the 20's after WWI the arsenals in Germany were in dire straits as they couldn't make one military anything so many if not most went into civilian gun design and manufacture with a primary target of exporting to mainly the U.S. and Canada. Have a 1919 Geco .22 SS and it's drives nails at about 200+ feet. A very unique design and well crafted rifle. May make a post on it in another section one of these days. It was made for U.S. export only. This Ortgies main target was export to the U.S. and Canada. How this one got here, no way to know.

[desdem12]

Nice pistol You can reload the nagant, not too hard just a little practice and you'll get it. Have seen dies and also brass somewhere

[knssrtrd]

I have a 1935 Tula marked Nagant SN#155XX bought a 32 acp cylinder due to ammo cost availablity. The cylinder works with a snag when the gun rotates to one chamber. The 32 round is so much fun to use I bought a CZ 70 this weekend to play with. The Ortgies is just a class act what smooth lines.

[BuckeyeSgt]

What is the difference from the ammo in this thread and what I have. The round is halfway down the case and doesn't look like what is posted here.

[MoSEEN.Nut]

What is the difference from the ammo in this thread and what I have. The round is halfway down the case and doesn't look like what is posted here.

Only a guess, maybe they are "blanks". I can't tell from the picture if what's in the case is an actual bullet or not. Otherwise maybe somebody on the forum might know if there is a "light" round made for the Nagant or what it could be.

TO BE SAFE, I wouldn't fire one of these until I made sure I knew what it is.