Quiz for the Budding Mosin Collector

[martin08]

Last February, I picked up a forlorn looking little Mosin Nagant for $90 with an Izhevsk Arsenal tang date of 1917.





The gun had an extremely unfortunate meeting with Bubba, and it's matching numbered stock was cut.






And it also had numbers on wierd parts like the bolt head, cocking knob, rear sight leaf, just under the rear sight base, the receiver, and the left side barrel shank. Normal parts like the floor plate, buttplate, and bolt body also matched.








But the strangest part was the where one would expect to find some good information - the barrel shank. It was completely blank, except for one crest stamp and a lonely number.




And now for you seasoned collectors (THIS MEANS YOU, MILLMAN !!!), I would ask you to hold your tongue for a moment to allow others to speculate....

OK, guys. What the heck did I find?

[millman]

Polish 8x57 conversion. Great find. Damn bubbas ass! :evil:

[martin08]

How did you look that one up so quickly, Millman?

[Miller Tyme]

The bolt head is a big give away........
Bet that would be pricey to replace.

[Hlavinka]

Bolt head, shortened chamber and 7.95 marking give it away, Great Find!

[millman]

How did you look that one up so quickly, Millman?

I didn't have to look that one up. It pays to remember these things. Did you get that one on an auction site, or find it in person?

[Darryl]

Can I let go yet?

Dolk

[martin08]

I didn't have to look that one up. It pays to remember these things. Did you get that one on an auction site, or find it in person?

That's Ok, millman. You probably just missed reading the second to last line in the OP.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Shit, I would like to kick that Bubba in the ass hard enough for him to taste shinola, such a rare piece, what a shame.

[martin08]

Can I let go yet?

Dolk

Oh, yeah. You're all good to go.

[millman]

I didn't have to look that one up. It pays to remember these things. Did you get that one on an auction site, or find it in person?

That's Ok, millman. You probably just missed reading the second to last line in the OP.

Honestly I did. I posted the answer, and then read it. Crap. Oh well.

[martin08]

Oh, well. So, we go with the flow. ;)

A little history on the Polish Wz. 91/98/25:

The 1920's spawned the desire in Poland to consolidate munitions, and a good number of the captured Tzarist era M91's were converted from 7.62X54 to the German 8mm round - 7.92X57. The results were designated as the wz. 91/98/23, wz. 91/98/25, and wz. 91/98/26 Mosin Nagants. The 91 referring to the Mosin M91, the 98 for the Mauser K98, and the 23, 25, and 26 as the production year. Known armories were located in Radom and Polish occupied Lwow. Acutal bore diameters were stamped on the barrel shank, and Polish eagles were the usual distinct markings.

In general, they featured a shortened rechambered 8mm barrel, modified magazines and rear sights, a new bolt head to accommodate the rimless cartridge, redesigned interrupter and ejector (late versions), and stock changes to augment inletting for the smaller chamber. The forend was shortened and fitted to accept the Mauser bayonet lug and barrel band on the '25 and 26's. Sling attachments varied significantly from rear lower and/or side K98 or wz. 29 Mauser swivels with plugged slots, or open sling slots with wire hangers - front attachment points varied as well with many combinations of plugged or open slots, wire hangers and some with wz. 29 front bands with swivels. Upper handguards were generally shortened from M91's.

The converted Mosins were commonly described as second line small arms in cavalry and infantry units, but these were also issued in lesser numbers to the Polish State Police, Forest Service and Border Guards. Sources point to approximately 70,000 to 77,000 units were produced in the three production years. In the mid 1930's, Poland eventually phased out the firearm. Some (approx 3,000) were sold to Spain for the Civil War, others to Yugoslavia, and by 1939, the inventory in Poland was said to be 1 unit. Remaining units worldwide are unknown, with very few 23's. The most common is the '25, and these are the usual specimens found - with some sources calling them 26's if exhibiting the upgraded interrupter/ejector combination.


Some translated links (hope they work!)

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... rmd%3Divns

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... rmd%3Divns

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... rmd%3Divns

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... rmd%3Divns

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... rmd%3Divns

[martin08]

Shit, I would like to kick that Bubba in the ass hard enough for him to taste shinola, such a rare piece, what a shame.

I already did kick Bubba down a notch.

DISCLAIMER!!! No Mosin M91 stocks, Mausers, or small animals were sacrificed for the following reproduction. All parts were obtained from unserviceable firearms, and I can return its original stock at any time. It just looks far more appropriate for the variation.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Reminds me of the .30-06 variations of converted Mosin that crop up from time to time, most of them considered unsafe, what did the Poles do that made theirs good shooters? The .30-06 model also has a cut back chamber, mod to the bolt head, but no mod to the stock.

[bunkysdad]

The first time I had heard of one of these was a couple of years ago when I found one for auction by a seller of high end military firearms, and best I remember his starting price was about 1500.00.
I couldn't tell from your first pics, did bubba leave the front sight intact or did you have to fix that? This gun is so nice now that you rescued it. Thank God bubba didn't drill and tap the receiver and throw on a big scope.

[Rongo]

The first time I had heard of one of these was a couple of years ago when I found one for auction by a seller of high end military firearms, and best I remember his starting price was about 1500.00.
I couldn't tell from your first pics, did bubba leave the front sight intact or did you have to fix that? This gun is so nice now that you rescued it. Thank God bubba didn't drill and tap the receiver and throw on a big scope.

Yes, it looks great. It's a shame on that original stock though.

[martin08]

The first time I had heard of one of these was a couple of years ago when I found one for auction by a seller of high end military firearms, and best I remember his starting price was about 1500.00.
I couldn't tell from your first pics, did bubba leave the front sight intact or did you have to fix that? This gun is so nice now that you rescued it. Thank God bubba didn't drill and tap the receiver and throw on a big scope.

The last whole one that sold came in May from Empire Arms. It was mismatched, but not Bubba'd. The list price was $2,800.00

The front sight is original, the Poles pinned them on. The vertical profile of the rear sight base was ground down and the sight leaf was flattened to accommodate the trajectory of the 8mm ballistics.

Very glad that bubba left the metal intact. It was in a private collection since the mid 1960's, and the collector's index card showed that he bought it for $14.

Did you get that one on an auction site, or find it in person?

I found this one at a local gun show. I didn't know what it was, and I left it there (won't ever do that again!). When I went to the vendor's shop a couple weeks later, he still had it - luckily! I talked him out of it for $90 OTD.

My next one came via Gunbroker, just last month. It was poorly indexed and only two people bid on it. Got that one for $235 - but that's another story for another thread.

[millman]

Did you get that one on an auction site, or find it in person?

I found this one at a local gun show. I didn't know what it was, and I left it there (won't ever do that again!). When I went to the vendor's shop a couple weeks later, he still had it - luckily! I talked him out of it for $90 OTD.

My next one came via Gunbroker, just last month. It was poorly indexed and only two people bid on it. Got that one for $235 - but that's another story for another thread.

Sweet.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Yes, best the seller isn't checking the Mosin forums before you post that one. " man takes handfull of pills after selling $3000 rifle for $235 on internet"

[martin08]

Yes, best the seller isn't checking the Mosin forums before you post that one. " man takes handfull of pills after selling $3000 rifle for $235 on internet"

I told him what it was before he shipped it. He said, "Oh well, it's been in the back room of the gun shop for over thirty years. Time for it to go!"

And it will never be a $3,000 gun, either. It was also Bubba'd - but in a different way. My suspicion is that Samuel Cummings had his hands on it at one time.