M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
A recent acquisition, this M91-38 is unusual and something of a mystery in that has a Hungarian stock and looks like it has seen service. The rifle appears to have been together this way for some time. It was uncharacteristically dirty for the type, and the receiver and chamber were full of that crappy grease common to Mosins.
The history will likely never be known. Theories/conjecture welcome.
The history will likely never be known. Theories/conjecture welcome.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
That is an interesting rifle.
- Miller Tyme
- PE - PEM - PU
- Posts: 1996
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:24 pm
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
Odd bird for sure, excecpt for the barreled action and mag assy it looks like a Romanian mix master, but the bluing (or lack of) on some parts tells me this rifles parts came together sometime well after it was cut down to a 91/38.
“The only real power comes out of a long rifle" - Joseph Stalin
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
Interesting indeed.
It looks like the front barrel band and the handguard end caps were painted with some sort of brown paint, as if they didn't want their "shiny bits" standing out in battle.
Of course, the bolt is shiny, but that was possibly/probably swapped out (and force matched) later anyway.
At least that's my theory.
It looks like the front barrel band and the handguard end caps were painted with some sort of brown paint, as if they didn't want their "shiny bits" standing out in battle.
Of course, the bolt is shiny, but that was possibly/probably swapped out (and force matched) later anyway.
At least that's my theory.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers #29: ...if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.
- Junk Yard Dog
- Owner/Founder
- Posts: 48759
- Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:54 pm
- Location: New York
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
91/38 sporterized sometime in the last 10-15 years and then returned to military by the addition of a Romanian used Hungarian stock and parts when prices started to rise on these. Nice find.
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt
- Miller Tyme
- PE - PEM - PU
- Posts: 1996
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:24 pm
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
WWW wrote:Interesting indeed.
It looks like the front barrel band and the handguard end caps were painted with some sort of brown paint,
The front barrel band has a "plum " coolered bluing, and is probably Polish. This can be confirmed if it has a "y" inspection stamp like the one pictured below.
“The only real power comes out of a long rifle" - Joseph Stalin
- Longcolt44
- Administrator
- Posts: 7574
- Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:13 pm
- Location: Loveland, Ohio
- Contact:
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
A-ha! An actual answer! I've heard of the plum colored bluing, but have never seen it in person.Miller Tyme wrote:WWW wrote:Interesting indeed.
It looks like the front barrel band and the handguard end caps were painted with some sort of brown paint,
The front barrel band has a "plum " coolered bluing, and is probably Polish. This can be confirmed if it has a "y" inspection stamp like the one pictured below.
Now we need more pics...
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers #29: ...if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
Nice looking piece. Lots of neat things going for it.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
I was bidding against you on this rifle and also really liked it. Who knows how or where the stock got added but it's a cool gun.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
"The Boss" has a good theory but you can never be sure. I really like it anyway, partly because of the cool stock.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
I sort of agree with the boss on this one. As far as my understanding goes, these guns were never issued or if issued - it was very sparingly. Always a chance it ended up in the Balkans and went through Cugir. That would explain the Hungarian stock. But, I don't think so. Likely fussed with at some point and then mounted in an 02 stock. Shame... but, you have the real deal there, so congrats. I don't believe I saw the listing for this one. The stock does have some unique qualities to it. Too bad, the original 02 rifle was removed.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
Yes, despite the Hungarian stock I couldn't pass it up. I do have my other M91/38, but they don't seem to come around often in any configuration.uberjon wrote:I was bidding against you on this rifle and also really liked it. Who knows how or where the stock got added but it's a cool gun.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
So does it have a Polish Mark on the front barrel band?djbuck1 wrote:
Yes, despite the Hungarian stock I couldn't pass it up. I do have my other M91/38, but they don't seem to come around often in any configuration.
Can you take another picture of it to show the "plum" color better?
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers #29: ...if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
I will check, tonight.WWW wrote:So does it have a Polish Mark on the front barrel band?djbuck1 wrote:
Yes, despite the Hungarian stock I couldn't pass it up. I do have my other M91/38, but they don't seem to come around often in any configuration.
Can you take another picture of it to show the "plum" color better?
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
My 91/38 had a plum band also... So dunno if it was only a polish thing
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
Many 91/38's have plum bands and cleaning rods. You will see this with some 91/59's as well. Obviously, many of the B Barrel Finn's were plum colored as well. I really think it is the type of steel they used that turns reddish when their "bluing" is applied to it. I have a Soviet refurb Star Model B and it's extractor is the same way.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
I checked both this rifle and my 1915 PTG M91/38. Both have plum colored front barrel bands. Neither one has the band marked in any way.djbuck1 wrote:I will check, tonight.WWW wrote:So does it have a Polish Mark on the front barrel band?djbuck1 wrote:
Yes, despite the Hungarian stock I couldn't pass it up. I do have my other M91/38, but they don't seem to come around often in any configuration.
Can you take another picture of it to show the "plum" color better?
- Darryl
- Sniper Expert
- Posts: 6176
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:33 pm
- Location: Northern California
- Contact:
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
Too much for me to comment on .....other then I will note:
The bolt is not "electro pencil" to match,.....it is "arc penciled" to match. Arc pencil occurred on late model M91/30's and M44's from after the war to 1948. If a bolt was replaced then, they were using a arc pencil to match them back on......Also.....on the M91/59's. They were arc penciled also.
Am I crazy, or is some of those numbers upside down and backwards on the bolt?
It is interesting this one has an arc pencil match on the bolt. Not sure what that means on this rifle at all......Just noting.
It's looks a M91/38 that was placed into a Hungarian stock sometime.
Dolk
The bolt is not "electro pencil" to match,.....it is "arc penciled" to match. Arc pencil occurred on late model M91/30's and M44's from after the war to 1948. If a bolt was replaced then, they were using a arc pencil to match them back on......Also.....on the M91/59's. They were arc penciled also.
Am I crazy, or is some of those numbers upside down and backwards on the bolt?
It is interesting this one has an arc pencil match on the bolt. Not sure what that means on this rifle at all......Just noting.
It's looks a M91/38 that was placed into a Hungarian stock sometime.
Dolk
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: M91-38 1904 Izhevsk
Wow Dolk, I missed that and have not seen it before. That is really unusual.dolk wrote: Am I crazy, or is some of those numbers upside down and backwards on the bolt?