Just Another Non-Refurb M-44?

[qz2026]

Mosin Nagant
Russian M-44
1944 Izhevsk
s/n NK2806 (Shank ИК2806)
Importer: Cole Dist S'ville KY

This rifle has a УЧ stamping on the shank

I thought I was done buying non refurb M-44's until I saw this one. Apparently no one else saw it but me or passed it by thinking another junker. So, as the auction was ending and no bids, I made the seller an offer and waa-laa - nice non refurb for not much. What I noticed that intrigued me (i.e., I had to have this gun) was the УЧ on the shank. I have never seen this on the shank of a Mosin before. I have one rifle with this stamping on the bolt and we will occasionally see them on the stocks of rifles. It is generally thought that this means that the rifle was used in training. But, by who and where? More on this later...

I am fairly sure that this rifle came out of Romania (Cugir Armory) where it was "refurbished" and sold to Cole Distributors. Most I've seen have come from Century. Not as much grease as I have seen on others. The same for the inside of the stock which was pretty nice and needed very little cleaning. The outside of the stock was very greasy as if it spent time with other greasy rifles. This one also had a cleaning rod-unusual. So, I'm thinking that these guns were sent to Balkan satellites from Russia - not a revelation to most people. Many were used hard but some, like this one did not appear to have had much use at all. The bore can't be described as anything but new. Very high shine (like a Swede or Swiss gun) and an excellent chamber. There is some very minor land damage, however. The stock has what is left of it's original finish and some gouging and dings that I attribute to stacking, sorting and storage vs. real field use. Stock and trigger guard are not likely original to the rifle though. There was a little active surface rust below the wood line, as well, which could be attributed to storage conditions. Parts are all post 28 Izhevsk - they could be original.

There are also some very interesting things on this rifle, in addition to the УЧ stamping on the shank. The bolt is haphazardly stamped matching - very poorly done. I'm fairly confident this wasn't done here or by the importers. It also doesn't look like any re-stamp I have seen in refurbs. Additionally, the s/n is also stamped on the inside of the receiver rail in the same font - the first time I have ever seen this. This further leads me to believe that it was used as a training rifle by the Russians at some point and then sent to one of the Balkan satellites during or after the war - perhaps Bulgaria, and possibly used in the same capacity or not issued at all.

I have been very interested in the УЧ markings on rifles but have never been sure what it actually means. I believe I touched on the in a 91/38 showcase write up at one time, due to an imperial bolt being so marked, but will rehash it here. In translating УЧ in Russian you get something nonsensical such as "uch". If I tried уц, the translation is CA. So, I thought, what other countries use Cyrillic? So, I checked Bulgarian and уч translated to "teaching". Bingo! Not so fast I told myself.

I started translating phrases in Russian to see if I could make an abbreviation from them. When I translated "training center", it got Тренировочный центр - close but no cigar. But if I translated "training", I got учебный - which means training/education... When I translated "center/Centre" I got центр -very close. But, if I changed the "ц" to a "ч", the translation remained "Centre". So I think I have it figured out. УЧ is an abbreviation for Training or Educational Center. And this makes perfect sense. It also translates loosely to "teaching" in Bulgarian. So, was the rifle purpose built to be used in a training capacity and, at some point, sent to Bulgaria? Who knows? It's a tempting theory. Purpose built perhaps because of the bolt and inner receiver wall stamping? Could be. If used primarily in a classroom setting, this would explain why the bore and chamber appear brand new. I got very little fowling (gray) from the bore and some from the bolt but that's it. If shot as
part of the training program, the training would also include cleaning. That could explain why it was so clean.

Anyway, I am getting wordy again. So, let's hear your thoughts on this gun.

[B24]

Nice find!

[Fledge]

Wow! It cleaned up real nice. The serial number on the inside receiver wall is interesting. Can you imagine the poor guy that had to stamp that on a concave surface. Stock looks real good too, and just enough bluing to give it a nice patina. Great research about the training rifle stampings. I think you are on to something. Thanks for sharing all the pics.

[Junk Yard Dog]

1943 receiver, that's interesting considering that was a trials year for the M44, leftover parts making it to the early regular production run in '44 I would guess. Sloppy stampings on wartime Mosins are the norm, not the exception. Looks like my M44's with Romanian use, the only issued ones I have in M44's, I will have to check when I get a chance and see if they have the y4 marking.

[qz2026]

I was so excited about the yu stamp, I missed the contradiction between shank and receiver. Good catch. Another interesting conversation piece with this rifle. I get the sloppy stampings but never seen the stamp on the inner receiver rail before...

[BuckeyeSgt]

That's a nice little gem there qz!

[Fledge]

Kid Carbine strikes gold again

[BubbaDX]

Nice

[SA1911a1]

Congrats! Nice snag!

[B24]

Forrest Gump would say Mosins are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.

[steelbuttplate]

I found a '45 non refurb in my pile with a Y like that in a circle, I'll have to see what that means.

[qz2026]

Circle Y is a final black powder proof stamp.

[cj1964]

I've always read that the УЧ was a Russian mark, but that's all I know of it. My friend has a 91/30 with the mark crudely stamped with what appears to be a screwdriver or chisel! Your clear marking on a trials rifle is a gem of a find in my opinion.

[TulaTom]

The serial number on the inside of the receiver is something I've never seen before. Very cool!

[ffuries]

Question what makes this a non-refurb? The magazine plate SN and the butt-plate SN is different than the rifle itself, plus the bolt and inside the receiver SN's though matching lack the alpha prefix of the SN on the barrel! All this points to be a refurbed rifle I thought, or am I missing something here?

Not looking to start a fight, just trying to learn all that I can.

[Darryl]

Question what makes this a non-refurb? The magazine plate SN and the butt-plate SN is different than the rifle itself, plus the bolt and inside the receiver SN's though matching lack the alpha prefix of the SN on the barrel! All this points to be a refurbed rifle I thought, or am I missing something here?

All good points.

Maybe a refurbished rifle and was issued for use after it was refurbished?

Maybe parts were replaced during battle dur WWII by an armorer.

Maybe......well, who knows, but it is not the same rifle (all matching parts) as it came out of the factory is it?

I have a few that look just like this. Used hard and they have matching serial numbers. Most of those have a refurbishment mark on them, so we know some were re-issued after refurbishment and worn out a second time!







Here is a well used, but also refurbished (at one time) M44 in a laminated stock. So some were used after refurb. I have others withou the refurb mark and look the same. But I'd bet they were refurbished also because of the mismatched bolt serial numbers (EP'd on).


Dolk

[qz2026]

I made a response to your question, but after I pressed submit, it was gone

Most of us only think of the large post war refurbishment when the word "refub" comes up. During and after the war, and I suspect prior to the big refurbishment, Russia was supplying Balkan satellites with arms. They gave them what they had and some due to wear and tear needed to be refurbished before being sent. They were then sent off to the Balkans. After hostilities and when it became apparent that these guns were obsolete, they were disposed of. It seems that thousands of carbines, including Chinese T-53's, Hungarian M-44's, Romanian M-44's and some Polish M-44's went through Cugir Armory and were given a "refurbishment" of sorts - basically making them safe to shoot by replacing missing or destroyed parts.(This is also the case with a fair number of 91/30's) When replacing parts, they had little patience to arsenal match anything. These were then exported through companies like Century. These guns were roughly stored and it shows on the stocks and with occasional rusty rifles. So, when I use the term non refurb, my meaning is that they were likely an earlier refurbishment but subsequently sent off somewhere. These rifles were used and then discarded. Most have no cleaning rods, original Russian finish, and are likely to contain bolts, stocks and other parts from virtually any carbine that Cugir had in it's parts bins. Mismatched bolts are the norm, not the exception. A Hungarian stock on a Polish M-44 or Romanian M-44. A Russian magazine in a T-53. A Chinese bolt in a Russian M-44. It goes on and on. After a while, these are easy to spot. Of course, the other non refub are mostly rifles that made it to the importers not have been refurbished by Russia. These are typically in the original finished stock (although war worn), and are usually original matching guns. These are fairly uncommon and demand a sizable premium.

[Darryl]

I made a response to your question, but after I pressed submit, it was gone

Most of us only think of the large post war refurbishment when the word "refub" comes up. During and after the war, and I suspect prior to the big refurbishment, Russia was supplying Balkan satellites with arms. They gave them what they had and some due to wear and tear needed to be refurbished before being sent. They were then sent off to the Balkans. After hostilities and when it became apparent that these guns were obsolete, they were disposed of. It seems that thousands of carbines, including Chinese T-53's, Hungarian M-44's, Romanian M-44's and some Polish M-44's went through Cugir Armory and were given a "refurbishment" of sorts - basically making them safe to shoot by replacing missing or destroyed parts.(This is also the case with a fair number of 91/30's) When replacing parts, they had little patience to arsenal match anything. These were then exported through companies like Century. These guns were roughly stored and it shows on the stocks and with occasional rusty rifles. So, when I use the term non refurb, my meaning is that they were likely an earlier refurbishment but subsequently sent off somewhere. These rifles were used and then discarded. Most have no cleaning rods, original Russian finish, and are likely to contain bolts, stocks and other parts from virtually any carbine that Cugir had in it's parts bins. Mismatched bolts are the norm, not the exception. A Hungarian stock on a Polish M-44 or Romanian M-44. A Russian magazine in a T-53. A Chinese bolt in a Russian M-44. It goes on and on. After a while, these are easy to spot. Of course, the other non refub are mostly rifles that made it to the importers not have been refurbished by Russia. These are typically in the original finished stock (although war worn), and are usually original matching guns. These are fairly uncommon and demand a sizable premium.

All possible. There were M44's that went to Vietnam and were removed and sent back to the USSR later when the Chinese came in and supplied T53's.

Here is a Russian M44's refurbished in Poland and put into one of their stocks.





So these carbines were being used all over Eastern Europe and being refurbished (not by Russian standards). So who knows what was done to some of them.

Too bad they didn't keep a "log" under the handguards!


Dolk

[qz2026]

LOL. ...or a Russian M-44 in a Polish stock That's a real beauty. First time I have heard about Russian M-44's being returned to USSR from Vietnam. Anything is possible with these guns. Wonder how you would ID one of these...

[ffuries]

QZ2026

Thank you for the detailed response, that makes sense. I guess when I saw the word Non-refurbed my little brain couldn't get past that word. I got the opposite on two M-44's a Russian one (1947 Izhevsk) that is numbers matching down to the prefix on all the SN parts, and a 1954 Romanian that is also numbers matching down to the prefix on the SN parts.