Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

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hippocampus
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Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by hippocampus »

It was somewhat of an impulse buy. I found it at a local gun show, where it was the only one up for sale. It looked mostly legit, based on my (incomplete) knowledge of authentic PU features and definitely was a good looking rifle. The price was reasonable but not great and I managed to get the seller to drop it a little. Despite a couple concerns, I decided to pull the trigger and bring it home. After taking it apart I discovered that it was a Waffen Schumacher export and that raised the inevitable doubts... The importer is ATI.

To my eyes everything checks out except for a couple things. It's a 1943 Izhevsk with refurb marks on the barrel shank and scope. All stamped parts are Izhevsk. The stock looks original and even has a 1943 dated star cartouche (does not look like a Tula star as it does not have an arrow in the star). All serial numbers on the rifle are stamped matching, including prefixes, with the magazine floor plate old SN struck out. The SN font is the same on all parts except for the barrel shank. The action is really smooth and the trigger heavy but crisp and definitely better than the average MN one.

The features that bother me are 1. the scope mount SN does not match the rifle scope SN. 2. the bolt bend looks a little odd (I just don't have that much experience looking at real sniper bolts...) 3. the scope mount stock cut out looks old but not as old as the bolt handle side cutout.

What I think I have is a genuine re-arsenaled sniper rifle and scope. The mismatching of the scope base and rifle is what bothers me most. Could that have happened at the original arsenal level? Or is is more likely that it happened either at the German exporter or US importer level, or (hopefully not...) at the Bubba level? How does that affect the value of the rifle?

Now for the pics... It was humid that day and the metal picked up condensation.

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Import mark and scope number on receiver:
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WaffSchu mark under handguard:
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Bolt:
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Optics:
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The rifling is strong even though the bore is pretty dark:
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Scope markings:
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Receiver screws:
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Scope mount has the correct electro-penciled scope SN but the rifle SN is mismatched:
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Penciled SN on the inside of the handguard and stock:
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Scope mount cutout:
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Barrel marks:
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Star stock mark with "1943":
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Various stock marks:
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Haven't shot it yet, but I expect it will make a pretty nice shooter.

I would appreciate any comments the experts may have!
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Darryl
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Re: Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by Darryl »

The interesting part I see it the pencil numbers under the front hand guard. It is nice to see they did the snipers the same in Russia as they did in Ukraine. Not all snipers are marked like that from either place, but along with all the other practices, they are basically the same. That makes sense because they were all under the Soviet Union during the refurbishing years.

It of coarse is a Molot sniper that looks to not be touched much by Molot. The scope has been changed or added to the sniper rifle. Either they did that during refurbishment (in which case they usually electro-pencil the scope numbers on or re-stamp them) or Molot added the scope on. In either case I would not worry about it at all. It is also common to see replaced scopes without and "re-stamping or re-marking" of the rifle out of the arsenals. So who knows and really, who cares.

I'm losing my memory, but doesn't that T inside a circle on the front of the muzzle? Never seen it there, only on the receivers of M91/38's ..... and it is a Chech arsenal mark??? That is very interesting.

You can go to bed and sleep like a baby tonight. That is a real sniper with an interesting Czech mark?? 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

Dolk

There are other things I see, but I'll leave them for now. I have other pressing things to do this morning.
6pack
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Re: Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by 6pack »

I thought the Russian letters were not added to the serial numbers when they were re-arsenaled. Seeing them would mean an original part. Is that not correct? I thought I was looking at a bunch of original parts and then saw the floor plate and that threw me off. Nice looking rifle.
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sgtheindl
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Re: Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by sgtheindl »

First off, nice looking sniper OP! I never get tired of looking at them.
6pack wrote:I thought the Russian letters were not added to the serial numbers when they were re-arsenaled. Seeing them would mean an original part. Is that not correct? I thought I was looking at a bunch of original parts and then saw the floor plate and that threw me off. Nice looking rifle.
Some refurbed parts do have cryllic letters. It's just another one those inconsistencies in the refurb process.

My ex-sniper, you can tell the typeset for the barrel shank is different from the rest of the parts even though there is a cryllic prefix so you know they are reworked parts.
serials.jpg
And my sniper which I believe and have been told has its original parts and scope number even though it went through a refurbishment. The 3s are a big giveaway to me.
sniper serials.jpg
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Darryl
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Re: Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by Darryl »

6pack wrote:I thought the Russian letters were not added to the serial numbers when they were re-arsenaled. Seeing them would mean an original part. Is that not correct? I thought I was looking at a bunch of original parts and then saw the floor plate and that threw me off. Nice looking rifle.
sgtheindl hit it right on the head. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't have prefix. But almost all of them don't match "font wise" with the barrel shank serial number (which is the original serial number).

Molot rifle viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21911
The floor plate has been replaced at some time. It is off a different rifle (probably parted out). The old number lined out.
I'd say the butt plate, stock, and hand guard are original
Hard to really tell on the barrel bands, as they are just arsenal marked. (but, who cares)
The bolt is "force matched" by re-stamping it. The font does not match (look at the 5's and 2"s)
The scope looks like a "Progress" factory scope, maybe 1943 to 44? It has been refurbished (square with the X in it) viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10650
The mount is a little strange. It doesn't match anything and look like a "Tula" scope mount???
The other marks on the stock are mostly unknown marks. except the refurbish mark (square box with diag. line)

viewforum.php?f=52


If I were you, I'd pursue that "T in a circle" mark up towards the muzzle. If that is a "czech" arsenal mark, that would be very unusual.

Dolk
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Darryl
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Re: Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by Darryl »

6pack wrote:I thought the Russian letters were not added to the serial numbers when they were re-arsenaled. Seeing them would mean an original part. Is that not correct? I thought I was looking at a bunch of original parts and then saw the floor plate and that threw me off. Nice looking rifle.
sgtheindl hit it right on the head. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't have prefix. But almost all of them don't match "font wise" with the barrel shank serial number (which is the original serial number).

Molot rifle viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21911
The floor plate has been replaced at some time. It is off a different rifle (probably parted out). The old number lined out.
I'd say the butt plate, stock, and hand guard are original
Hard to really tell on the barrel bands, as they are just arsenal marked. (but, who cares)
The bolt is "force matched" by re-stamping it. The font does not match (look at the 5's and 2"s)
The scope looks like a "Progress" factory scope, maybe 1943 to 44? It has been refurbished (square with the X in it) viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10650
The mount is a little strange. It doesn't match anything and look like a "Tula" scope mount???
The other marks on the stock are mostly unknown marks. except the refurbish mark (square box with diag. line)

viewforum.php?f=52


If I were you, I'd pursue that "T in a circle" mark up towards the muzzle. If that is a "czech" arsenal mark, that would be very unusual.

Dolk

First one is your barrel. Second one is my receiver on my M91/38 Czech carbine. That circle T is a Czech arsenal mark I think.(I'm pretty sure, but I am going blind!)
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Knuckledragger
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Re: Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by Knuckledragger »

As has been stated. You have an authentic sniper.
The butt plate, mag plate, and bolt are all force-matched at refurb.
You have a Tula scope mount and Tula stock. All of this is fine for a refurb rifle.

Congrats!!
hippocampus
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Re: Thoughts on my first PU sniper (pic heavy)

Post by hippocampus »

Finally took her out to the range! At 50 yds I got one inch groups. They spread out a little at 100 yds, about 3 inches at best. I'm blaming the low scope magnification... Over all, I'm very pleased with the accuracy!

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