1896 Tula M91--Need some help. Pic heavy.

[Pip6214]

Today, I traded a 91/59 that was pretty beat up for this 1896 Tula M91 Austrian Capture. My first observations that it is probably a Vet bringback. It has a duffel cut and no import marks or Finnish/SCW markings. I am looking to get some advice what modifications was done by the Austrians or Bubba. The obvious issues is the fact the stock was sanded and refinished as well as the sling escutcheons. The rear sight is a stumper but it seems like the base was remarked indicating being converted to 8x50r. I plan to find some screws for the escutcheons and depending on whether it was Bubba's handwork Ill replace the rear sight.

[Pip6214]

[Junk Yard Dog]

Finn trigger? Could be somebody repaired what was a cut short Bubba hunting rifle stock. It's easier to add wood back to the front of a 1891 stock than find a whole stock sometimes.

[redspoon]

Pretty cool M91, butt stock serial from what I can make out seems to match shank. Still has the rope hole and maybe a wooden crossbolt, early mag hsg. with swivel. Austrian mark on receiver, It's got a lot going on. I like it.

[Pip6214]

Yeah, numbers on the stock match the barrel shank.The two parts of the stock look be same condition and handling marks. The cuts on the two pieces match so I don't think it was pieced together. The makeshift rear sight slide and one of the screws looks to be bubba but it has the same patina and weathered look as the rest of the rifle. It doesn't seem to match with the rest of the Finnish and Finnish capture rifles I own and have seen.

[lthilsdorf]

Interesting. I have an 1896 Tula Austrian captured M91 too. Mine has a similar serial number/"A" marking on the side of my receiver like you do too.

[davesstuff1]

[zeebill]

Wow you have a neat old rifle there with a bundle of questions coming with it. Does the front part appear to be doweled to the rear part of the stock or just glued in place? I am going to guess the drilled and sleeved hole in the butt stock may have been done by the Austrians and the only reason I am saying that is I have seen another like that. Not a real strong reason I know but that is sometimes all we have to go on sometimes. I also vaguely remember seeing a picture of something just like that in a book. I kind of think it might be one of KHW's books but have not a copy available to me anymore to check.
By the way if the stock repair is not doweled and being it looks so old I would be real careful if you intend to fire it the way it sits right now. I would at least try and find another stock to fire it in for safeties sake. I have been wondering about rifles that may have come to this country without import marks and by what methods they came here a lot lately as I have been seeing a few as of late on line and in person. Then you get down to the "Duffle-cut" or what ever it might be because that is indeed a prime spot for Bubba to do his work and frankly we may never know about the truth. I have out in the shop right now a similar rifle that I know was the work of Bubba and it is waiting for the right stock or repair with what is at hand right now which is more than likely what I will be forced to do.
With that more than likely being the actual front of the rifle (which even though the cut says it is we will never actually know) that is a great candidate for a strengthening move to make that a working rifle. What ever happens there that is a great old rifle with lots of history and questions to it. I would have grabbed it in an instant. Congrats and have fun working with it! Bill

[racerguy00]

That one may have been converted by the Austrians to 8x50 and either left that way or had the chamber sleeved back to 7.62x54r by the Finns if there are any Finn markings. I cant see any on my phone and I'm having trouble getting replies to you post to load. They actually fired 8mm projectiles out of a 7.62 mm barrel with just the chamber having been changed.

[Pip6214]

I tried to get a decent pic of the chamber (needs some cleaning). Compared to the chamber of my other rifles it looks crude and may be a little larger I cant really tell. I doubt its any indicaton but I put a 8x56r round into the chamber and it almost fit in. I would say about ~5mm of the round was sticking out.

[Pip6214]

Here is some pictures for amusement. A 8x56r that almost fully chambers.

[racerguy00]

The rear sight markings are in Austrian Shritt, not Russian Arshins. That along with the OEWG Austrian stamps makes me confident this has been rechambered. I most definitely would NOT fire it until a chamber cast or something was made. If it IS 8x50, it is a very uncommon beast. The rear sight sliders can be had relatively easily. Keep us up to date

[desdem12]

Pretty cool.

[RickW]

If you slug your barrel with a lead fishing weight, then you will get a measurement of the inside of your barrell(lands and grooves). There's a lot of instructions on the internet on how to do this. A 8mm bullet has a diameter of approximately .323(depending on which type of 8mm gun it is). If the barrell grooves are large enough, then maybe they was shooting 8mm X 54r(use the 7.62x54r case, then stretch the neck out to 8mm to load the 8mm bullet).

[racerguy00]

Sounds incredible but its true. The 8mm bullets fired from the conversions were squeezed through the .311 bore. Only the chamber was changed.

[davesstuff1]

[bunkysdad]

That sounds like a recipe for some serious pressure spikes.

[Pip6214]

It looks like it did have those over pressure issues, looks to have cracks behind the tang that may have been repaired but it seems to open up if it has downward pressure on the butt stock .

[Pip6214]

Finally got my hands on some 8x50r Austrian thanks to Liberty Tree Collectors and I snapped a few photos. The first photo is with a regular 7.62x54r, next are the 8x50r then the last set are the cut stock with some sort of Bubba? dowel, lol.

[rayjd2]

Look like straight up nails to me. Who was it that said the Finns sometimes used nails covered in some brown gunk, was it Bill? Or was that just in the receiver area? Good thing we didn't kill Bill, for I need him now. And his Artillery Carbine.