Home Defense Loads

[kwillindy]

Junk Yard Dog and others here have mentioned the legal sides of shooting someone in your house. Did you warn them, Castle doctrine, etc. Along those lines, a guy at my LGS says he loads his home defense shotgun with 00 Buck, but the last 2 loaded (first 2 out) are Birdshot. He says these are "warning" shots that could still do some damage, (yet not cost you too much in drywall contracting if they hit the walls), and the cops/jury will buy it if they see birdshot followed by buckshot, that your initial intent was not to kill. Afte the first 2, all bets are off and out comes the 00 lead.
Curious what thoughts forum members might have on this strategy or other home defense load tactics. Thanks.

[Sonny]

Bird shot out of a Ithaca xl300 with a 18.5 inch barrel.

Works good on birds too..lol

Poor cellphone pic but whatever..

[mogunner]

I want my first shot to count. But then Missouri has an excellent Castle Doctrine statute with no "duty to retreat" and plenty of test cases with no charges filed. Mine has five rounds of 00buck in the magazine and five more in a sidesaddle, and five remington 1 ounce rifled slugs on the side of the stock.

[jimpierce7]

I've not used a gun for home defense in a very long time. When I did it was a 12 gauge. I was always taught, and believe as well, in a home invasion situation I will not shoot to injure.

[Junk Yard Dog]

In a home situation you will be shooting at close range, maybe less than 10 feet, or 20 at most, birdshot will not have sufficient time to spread open at that sort of range, it will hit as a solid mass and turn someone to pulp. If you intend to fire it into a wall then a blank will do just as well to make noise and be less risky to someone on the other side, but keep in mind that you may not get the chance for a second shot. You may only get one shot. Shotgun is a good choice for home defense, remember , our own current vice president has recommended it to you.

[Junk Yard Dog]

He also recommended the firing warning shots into the air outside, this will get you arrested in many jurisdictions, if you fire that weapon in, or around your home it had better be a life or death situation, and you better not miss.

[ponycarman]

Mine are loaded with 00 buck. I live in Sc. If you come into my house unwelcomed the only warning you will get is the safety clicking off of my 870.

[Ironnewt]

We are specifically taught to shoot to incapacitate. That means to cause the attacker/threat to no longer be a threat. That being said as a Police Officer I have different rules to follow than John Q. Public. If I'm off duty I'm John Q until "I" decide to put myself on duty. That means after I've shot the threat, secured my family then called for on duty guys, I might worry about the threat needing treatment. Otherwise he's going to bleed and have 180 gr .40 S&W holes in his hide

[Junk Yard Dog]

Make sure he's standing on plastic before you shoot him, gunshots can be messy and carpet is expensive.

[bunkysdad]

If you do ever have to shoot someone the first words out of your mouth to law enforcement may be more important than what kind of loads you have in your firearm, provided the weapon and ammo is legal. You never tell them that you "shot to wound", or "shot to scare", or "shot to kill". And God help you if you use any racially descriptive words to describe your attacker. If a lawyer can turn a shooting into a hate crime you could seriously be screwed for life. The proper response is I was in fear of my life and I shot to "stop the threat". And right after a shooting you might be surprised to know that many shooters crap their pants, or Piss all over themselves. They may be too shaken to recall important details like how many rounds they fired, or what words were exchanged if any. The police may ask many questions that you are in no position to answer at the moment. Remember, if you don't answer their questions you may be arrested. You may anyhow until they sort things out. Legally you have a certain amount of time to remain silent, gather your wits, speak to an attorney, or whatever. It is ok if you get arrested. It is not ok if you get prosecuted for a crime that you did not commit because important details were missed or wrong things were spoken because you were a bundle of nerves.
I have been told by an attorney that to hire a law firm to represent you may require a retainer of as much as 25,000.00! A trial, even if found innocent could cost well over 100K. The reason to be very careful of what you say after a shooting is because you don't want it to go to trial, so a DA must see enough evidence that he is convinced you are innocent.
I think about this stuff a lot. Run scenarios through my head.
If you see someone climbing in your window would you automatically shoot? What if he was going out your window? What if he was standing in your living room alone and you 50" plasma was in his arms? These are not the same issues as if he was walking through you living room with a weapon, and intent is important. Are you in fear of your life? Shoot to stop the threat.
Please don't come back on this thread and make written statements that could be used against you like "I'd fill him full of holes" or "I'd empty the whole mag" because none of us know what we would really do. Statistics show that you would most likely need new underwear.

[Darryl]

Better alive and having to explain, then dead.

You don't have to explain anything. If the person threatened your life, you have the right to defend yourself in your home. Period. Don't tell anyone anything, ask for a lawyer like the bad guys do.




You young guys ...... this matter. Us older guys .... well, what are they going to do, put us in jail for the rest of our lives!


.

[Junk Yard Dog]

The TV in his arms, I would thank him for stopping by to help me move it to were I want it, then we would have a long talk about his future. If attacked I would simply have to put him down. I am too old to be wrestling around with armed thugs , and I can't run fast. Whatever happens next would still be better than death. You keep your mouth shut, if you have a lawyer then request that he be called before you speak to anyone about anything. If you do not have one then request to have one provided for you before questioning. If you do not live in a castle doctrine state this is very important, you will be arrested, and once arrested you have the right under the Miranda act to have a lawyer provided to you BEFORE questioning. You also have the right to remain silent, so shut the f*** up , Anything you say can be used against you later. You and your lawyer decide what your statement will be, and for f***'s sake do not try and tamper with the crime scene, the CSI types will find you out and then you are in a world of shit. During a SHTF end of days situation you do what you must to stay alive and there will be no jury's to worry about. Now is not that time, better to harden your home to prevent an intruder before you have to shoot anybody, and if you pack a gun then learn the laws in your state governing how and when, and under what circumstances you can use it.

[BubbaDX]

Junk Yard Dog and others here have mentioned the legal sides of shooting someone in your house. Did you warn them, Castle doctrine, etc. Along those lines, a guy at my LGS says he loads his home defense shotgun with 00 Buck, but the last 2 loaded (first 2 out) are Birdshot. He says these are "warning" shots that could still do some damage, (yet not cost you too much in drywall contracting if they hit the walls), and the cops/jury will buy it if they see birdshot followed by buckshot, that your initial intent was not to kill. Afte the first 2, all bets are off and out comes the 00 lead.
Curious what thoughts forum members might have on this strategy or other home defense load tactics. Thanks.

Sounds like Joe Biden hangs out at your LGS. No warning shots, no scaring them. You are defending yourself and your family. Do what you have to do and only what you have to do.


"Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves." - Henry David Thoreau

[Ratgeyser]

Re: loads--local gun store sells the rubber buckshot the police used to quell rioters. As I was looking at it, the owner came over and I asked him if it would make a good first round in a dutch load. He vigorously shook his head and said, "If you shoot that at someone, legally speaking it's straight-up assault with a deadly weapon and/or attempted murder, just like you shot 'em with #00, and if the DA decides that you were more likely to shoot because you chose to load rubber buckshot, he'll come at you with Murder 2 instead of manslaughter. There's no such thing as half-shooting someone." That settled birdshot for me as well.

Re: keeping your mouth shut--one officer gave me some great advice, and I've taken it to heart: memorize the phrase "I will give you a full written statement." The responding officer has to get enough facts to know generally what happened, and if you're willing to give him a written statement it establishes cooperation and timeframe--you are being cooperative, but you're going to take some time to get him that statement. If he hands you a pen, hand it back and say "I'm too distraught to write this right now. I will give you a full written statement as soon as I am able." Use that time to speak to an attorney and sleep on it and get your head clear.

To be clear, I like both of these bits of advice, but I've never ever had to use either one. Here's hoping I never will.

[Tennessee_Mosin]

I have "00" buck loaded at all times.

Here is Tennessee's gun law's in a nutshell


Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms?

Yes. That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

Concealed Carry

Tennessee is a shall-issue state, meaning authorities are required by law to issue carry permits to all qualified applicants. Qualified applicants in Tennessee must be at least 21 years of age and successfully complete a handgun safety course.

Persons who are barred from receiving handgun carry permits in Tennessee include anyone who has been convicted of a felony, illegal aliens, anyone who suffers from debilitating mental illness, anyone who has been convicted of crimes of domestic violence, anyone who has been convicted of DUI within five years, or two or more DUI penalties within 10 years, anyone who is addicted to drugs or who has undergone rehabilitation for drugs or alcohol abuse within the past 10 years, fugitives from justice and anyone who is under an order of protection.

Application for carry permits in Tennessee is made through the Department of Safety. Permits are issued within 90 days and are valid for four years at a cost of $115.

Tennessee’s carry permits are honored by the following states: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wyoming.

Tennessee honors permits from the states of Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia and Wyoming.

Castle Doctrine

Tennessee has a self-defense law based on the castle doctrine. Enacted in 2007, the law does not require a duty to retreat. It extends the right for persons to defend themselves from attacks by using physical or deadly force in any place they have a legal right to be. The law provides civil immunity for persons using physical or deadly force to protect themselves from an attacker.

Pro-Gun Provisions

While open carry is prohibited for anyone who doesn’t have a carry permit, having a permit enables persons to transport long guns — rifles or shotguns — in their vehicles. The firearms can be loaded, but cannot have a shell in the chamber.

Tennessee has a state firearms preemption law that prevents cities or counties from enacting gun laws that are more restrictive than state law. The state also has a range protection law that extends protection to gun firing ranges.

[ffeng31]

My shotgun is loaded with what was advertised as a multi- defense load . I call it my "dead men tell no tales" load. They contain a .65 cal ball followed by six #1 buckshot . I live in Florida ans we have great laws regarding castle doctrine . It even applies to your vehicle here. Oh and, we have a stand your ground law . ..

[Junk Yard Dog]

My shotgun is loaded with what was advertised as a multi- defense load . I call it my "dead men tell no tales" load. They contain a .65 cal ball followed by six #1 buckshot . I live in Florida ans we have great laws regarding castle doctrine . It even applies to your vehicle here. Oh and, we have a stand your ground law . ..

Otherwise known as a buck 'n' ball load, during the states war such loads were used in the flintlock muskets some Southern state guard units still had.

[optikalillushun]

Rio #4 buck and Winchester PDX1