C&R

[qz2026]

A fee is revenue and thus taxable. What bugs me is when you purchase on GB using a credit card and pay the credit card fee on the shipping as well.

[cep89]

Here in Michigan many of the gun shops that will act as FFL for a fee are also charging MI state sales tax on top of their FFL fee even on out of state purchases. With a C & R FFL it ships directly to you so you don't have to deal with them.

are they charging sales tax on the gun's value, or on the transfer fee? If the former, I would question whether they are actually giving that to the state, or pocketing it.

They told me it was tax on the price of the gun. I didn't think this was legal on an out of state sale ,but they told me it was a state use tax and they have been told by the state to collect it.

[qz2026]

That has not been my experience and I have bought more than a few online. Rifle Cost + Shipping equals one value. The credit card fee is attached to that total dollar value. I have been experimenting with just sending the UPS label to them where I can control the shipping cost. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[desdem12]

Unfortunately it is different prices to ship from someplaces. I remember your place being the most expensive I have ever done Tom. Is weird too cause I have sent all the way to Virginia and Pennsylvania and those were cheaper. I dont quibble a few dollars on shipping anymore after shipping some myself. I actually have boxes and other crap too so I just charge shipping and it is or was right around 35 bucks for me to ship anywhere. I don't use the CC and just send the mo instead as I am not that much in a hurry.
I have to add the most I have paid was from Alaska and that was 45 shmos but came in a nice hard case. That also was not too funny as I am fairly close to Alaska and I tracked it and it went to new jersey before coming back to Washington.

[qz2026]

A fee is revenue and thus taxable. What bugs me is when you purchase on GB using a credit card and pay the credit card fee on the shipping as well.

I use a CC on Gunbroker, But I don't use it thru there system, I call the guy or the FFL selling the gun and give him my FFL and CC info and done deal. Actually I use a debit card on Gunbroker as I can control what amount of money is on it and no fraud can be done, If the seller isn't a FFL I still give him my FFL and if it says 20.00 shipping that's all he's gonna get, What the FFL charges him to send it to me I could careless. If the gun I won was 500.00 he gets $520.00 total and nothing more.

I'm not sure I understand everything you have said. If the seller you purchased from is not charging a credit card fee, the you have found the only one that I know of. I have not found a seller that does not charge 3% for credit card transactions because that is what he is charged from MasterCard or whoever (or something close to that anyway). And, MasterCard calculates the charge to the seller by the total amount of the transaction. So, if your gun is $200 and the shipping is $30, your seller will get charged a fee based on $230. He will pass that back to you as the 3% credit card fee. I have no problem with this - that's the price of doing business with the credit card and not having to run to the post office for a money order, mail it and then wait for it to be received before your rifle is shipped. Having the rifle shipped that day or the next day is worth the $6.90 fee to me. This has nothing to do with the FFL.

We were discussing why an FFL would charge tax on the transfer fee. Two different things.

[qz2026]

Here in Michigan many of the gun shops that will act as FFL for a fee are also charging MI state sales tax on top of their FFL fee even on out of state purchases. With a C & R FFL it ships directly to you so you don't have to deal with them.

are they charging sales tax on the gun's value, or on the transfer fee? If the former, I would question whether they are actually giving that to the state, or pocketing it.

They told me it was tax on the price of the gun. I didn't think this was legal on an out of state sale ,but they told me it was a state use tax and they have been told by the state to collect it.

BS, there is no such "use" tax in Michigan. There is a use tax for buying anything out of state. Strictly speaking, anything purchased out of the state of Michigan is taxable and you must report it. Michigan and several other states have started putting pressure on internet retailers to withhold tax and send it to the state quarterly. Most retailers write back and cordially tells the State of Michigan to bag it. These states are now pressuring the Feds to pass a law requiring online retailers to withhold taxes which would be a nightmare. They have had some success with the larger online retailers. And, legally, yes you should report this transaction to the State in April but understand this - it is NOT the responsibility of the transfer agent to collect any sort of tax on the rifle - period. They did not sell it to you and have nothing to do with the transaction to purchase the weapon. He can only legally collect sales tax on your transfer fee. What has or is being perpetrated is fraud by these gun shops.

[desdem12]

In washinton you do have to pay tax if it is sent to an ffl. So you have to pay tax on ...rifle, shipping and transfer. Adds up to a lot so that is why I only buy c&r unless it is in the store or a really really good price.

[qz2026]

In washinton you do have to pay tax if it is sent to an ffl. So you have to pay tax on ...rifle, shipping and transfer. Adds up to a lot so that is why I only buy c&r unless it is in the store or a really really good price.

I heard that

[Darryl]

ohio is pretty easy fill out the form and pay 25 for the ffl is all ive ever had to do

OK, this information is for people in California only. other states are different.

If you go to a local gun store and buy a C&R, you have to pay calif. DROS ($25) plus sales tax plus the cost of the firearm and you have to wait 10 days. They don't care if you have a 03FFL or not. a 03FFL is useless.

If someone sells any firearm except a C&R, you have to go through a 01FFL dealer.

If a private party is selling a C&R firearm (not a c&r handgun but a C&R long gun), Then they can sell it to anyone over 18 years old. Doesn't seem fair to the 01FFLs but ....

If you want to buy a C&R from someone and you don't have a C&R license, then you have to go to a 01FFL dealer and do a transfer through him ($80 plus $25 Calif DROS plus tax) and you wait 10 days from the time the 01FFL receives it.

If you have a federal 03FFL license and a State COE (Certificate of Eligibility), you can go to a gun store and buy a C&R from them and there is no $25 DROS fee or waiting (a COE from the State DOJ supersedes the DROS and waiting period).

With a 03FFL license, you can buy a c&r long gun from a supplier or private seller and it can be sent straight to your house. But not a C&R handgun. That always has to go through a 01FFL dealer.




In January, I think the new law goes into effect. All firearms have to be registered with the DOJ.....handguns (which are already registered) and also longuns. So the 03FFL will be useless as all firearm have to go through a 01FFL deal to do that. No more private sale of c&R. One exception, If you have a 03FFL, and a COE (that's me!), you still can buy like before, you just have to turn in a form saying you bought such and such to the State DOJ.

Just another "hoop" to jump through. Bottom line for me as a collector is, they haven't change anything at all. I still can buy just as I did before.

Dolk

[desdem12]

[Darryl]

More like..

2011
2012
2013
2014

thank goodness our state legislature are too stupid to write a decent law, and 95% of them get tossed out for stupid errors in cort. Then we and the NRA battle the rest and what is left, we deal with.

[Darryl]

dolk needs to move to AZ

I've heard that before!

I had one Daughter living in Virginia (I love it there!) and my son living in Utah (not bad and great hunting) and we were thinking of moving to one of those two places when I retired (about 5 years). Then the present economy got screwed up and never got better, and now both of them are at home here! I really was looking forward to moving to Virginia. I love it out there except for the humidity for a few month a year!

But I do hear about AZ all the time!

Dolk

[cep89]

BS, there is no such "use" tax in Michigan. There is a use tax for buying anything out of state. Strictly speaking, anything purchased out of the state of Michigan is taxable and you must report it. Michigan and several other states have started putting pressure on internet retailers to withhold tax and send it to the state quarterly. Most retailers write back and cordially tells the State of Michigan to bag it. These states are now pressuring the Feds to pass a law requiring online retailers to withhold taxes which would be a nightmare. They have had some success with the larger online retailers. And, legally, yes you should report this transaction to the State in April but understand this - it is NOT the responsibility of the transfer agent to collect any sort of tax on the rifle - period. They did not sell it to you and have nothing to do with the transaction to purchase the weapon. He can only legally collect sales tax on your transfer fee. What has or is being perpetrated is fraud by these gun shops.

As I see it you are putting the blame on the wrong people. The gun shops are doing this because the state is telling them to and if they don't collect it from the buyers they will have to pay it. What the state is doing is illegal. There are some people that have a 01FFL that operate out of their home doing transfers that don't charge sales tax. Also a transfer is a service so a tax on that fee would be illegal in Michigan.

I can see the gun shops point of view. The don't have the money to hire a lawyer to fight the state's lawyers paid with our tax money.

[kamakazi339]

ohio is pretty easy fill out the form and pay 25 for the ffl is all ive ever had to do

OK, this information is for people in California only.

I know I was just telling you how ohio is

[Longcolt44]

Some dealers might require you to fill out the form 4473 but they don't have to call the information in to NICS. There is paperwork on their part to do after you attach your C&R. You may run in to sellers that will not accept your C&R but it is not the norm and is their perogative.

[Darryl]

ohio is pretty easy fill out the form and pay 25 for the ffl is all ive ever had to do

OK, this information is for people in California only.

I know I was just telling you how ohio is

I wasn't commenting on your post in perticular, I was just try to give some info for those in Calif.

Not sure why I quoted your post other then maybe it got me to think maybe I should be a little more clear that some of the stuff I have been talking about on 03FFL's has to do strictly to CALIF.

Dolk

[Longcolt44]

We accept all credit cards at the shop I work at in Ohio. We do not tack on any fee on charge cards. All cards charge the sellers about 2 1/2 to 4%. We just do not take American express as they wand 5 o 6%.

[berkmberk1]

Did anyone mention a C&R provides the incentive to stay up all night and "shop", go to bed late, then go to work and suck down LOTS of coffee to get your work done, so you can make money and go home and stay up late at night and "shop"?

[husker51]

Amen buddy, Amen!