My first black powder rifle!

[Junk Yard Dog]

I bought something similar to it in 1980 , the same basic style of Hawken is still being made today.

[ponycarman]

Yeah I've seen a couple around but not as many as I thought I would. I guess muzzle loaders aren't really a huge thing here. Most guys bow hunt and use centerfire rifles. Most people I've talked too about it complain about how hard they are to clean. Also I think it only adds an extra week to the deer season here. Nowhere I check has loose powder. I find the pellets alot and the sabot and powerbelt bullets. I have only seen ff powder at one place, they also had a tiny selection of round balls, and the #11 caps. Academy had the 777 powder but it was $30 per can .

[Junk Yard Dog]

You can shoot 777 in this as it's a caplock, your cleanup will not be that bad, just as if you shot surplus Mosin ammo. Reduce your main charge by 5% as 777 works at slightly higher pressures than holy black.

[ponycarman]

I may end up having to use it if thats all I can find right now. It would still be cheaper than paying the fees to have some powder shipped offline. I was hoping to stumble on to some cheaper stuff haha.

[mogunner]

If you can't find any locally, then check for muzzleloader clubs in your area. They'll know if anyone carries the substitutes and if nothing else maybe you can get in on a group buy on the real stuff, the hazmat fee isn't bad if it's split up between four or five guys.

[iwuzwhatiwuz]

If you're ever in the Winston Salem area you can get Goex for $16 bucks a can.

[ponycarman]

Thanks guys. I'll do some research locally for that. Also I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever up that way iwuzwhatiwuz. I don't venture up there much. We go to a race track in shelby ever now and then and my aunt lives in wilmington.

[tjtM38]

Several years ago I ordered in bulk from the regional Goex distributor in Arkansas. I got three pounds FFg, 1 pound FFFg, and one pound FFFg. I'm not sure you can do that anymore, but you could call them and ask. 5 pounds was the min order back then.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I order it 50 pounds at a time, the maximum amount, from Graf and son.

[ponycarman]

I believe powderinc.com is the site you are thinking of tjtm38. I looked at them yesterday. Not too bad on prices but they show that they are out of a couple powders.

[ponycarman]

I order it 50 pounds at a time, the maximum amount, from Graf and son.

Graf's prices are pretty reasonable. Even if I ordered 2 pounds of 2f and 2 of 3f it still wouldn't be too bad with the fees. After the fees and shipping it would be aroud $24 a pound.

[Junk Yard Dog]

It's the haz mat fee on top of regular shipping that sucks. It's the same fee for one pound as it is for 50 pounds, that's why I bulk order. They do let you mix and match so I get 1F for the Bess, FFG for the smaller rifles, FFFG for the revolvers, and a few cans of FFFFG for the flintlock pans. They also carry Swiss powder , and their own house brand, they will let you mix and match that in the order as well. You just can't ship any caps with the powder, that's it's own fee.

[ponycarman]

Yeah I understand. I would love to be able to get a larger order but unfortunately I don't have the funds for a large order. I'll probably wait till I get the rifle out and keep looking around here.

[Junk Yard Dog]

It's a once every ten year thing for me, the big bore eat up a lot of powder so fully half of the order is FG. If I needed to I could shoot FG in everything, the large grain size reduces the amount a pistol chamber will hold, but it's not something to worry about. FFFFG on the other hand is way to fine and extreme care must be used should you have to use in anything but a flinter pan. It can be done, but only in severe need.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Just don't keep the stuff in the house if you can avoid it, and get a heavy steel lock box to keep it in. Smokeless powder in a fire with give a great whoosh when it goes up, but BP even when loose will detonate like a bomb.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Remember also to never tip powder directly from a can or horn into the bore, always use a measure. One tiny ember in that bore from the last shot and they will be collecting your pieces for days.

[ponycarman]

Thanks for the tips. I'll make sure to remember that. The only storage I have outside the house is a rickety metal building. It isn't exactly waterproof. I'm not sure how powder would do out there. Also I'm not sure I would trust it to keep it secure. Other than that my only option is in the house.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Keep you powder dry, get an old icebox from the dump, put it in the shed, put a lock on the icebox and it should be fine.

[ponycarman]

Thats not a bad idea. I'll have to start looking around for an old one. Shouldn't be too exspensive because it doesn't have to work. Just seal up nice.

[iwuzwhatiwuz]

I've been reading about the paper cartridges that the old time cap and ball shooters used. One that pique my interest was one made by The Hazard Powder Company. It was a load composed of 20 grains of extremely fine powder, about the same as FFFFg, and a 220 grain conical. Modern testing has shown this to be a very powerful load, with a velocity around 1000fps and over 500 ft.lbs of energy! I looking for more info before I try such a load.